Bill Schuette Asked About "unknown Origin" Lab Reports

[t-pain]

http://fox17online.com/2015/11/05/drug-felonies-without-credible-proof-allegations-of-politicking-in-state-police-crime-labs/

 

Thursday evening FOX 17 caught up with Attorney General Bill Schuette at another event.

 

When FOX 17 asked specifically about these emails that suggest prosecutors within his office are manipulating the way crime labs are reporting marijuana, and what his involvement is, Schuette answered:

 

“We’re in the middle of an investigation so I really don’t, I can’t comment one way or the other. But, we have an outstanding group of people that work very hard to make sure we enforce the law and defend the Constitution of Michigan.”

 

Schuette also told FOX 17 his office is “always very open, very transparent, and we have a great group of lawyers who work very hard for the citizens of Michigan.”

[Wild Bill]

But, we have an outstanding group of people that work very hard to make sure we enforce the law and defend the Constitution of Michigan.”

 

Schuette also told FOX 17 his office is “always very open, very transparent, and we have a great group of lawyers who work very hard for the citizens of Michigan.”

 

At least he's kept his sense of humor!

[Restorium2]

http://fox17online.com/2015/11/05/drug-felonies-without-credible-proof-allegations-of-politicking-in-state-police-crime-labs/

 

Thursday evening FOX 17 caught up with Attorney General Bill Schuette at another event.

 

When FOX 17 asked specifically about these emails that suggest prosecutors within his office are manipulating the way crime labs are reporting marijuana, and what his involvement is, Schuette answered:

 

“We’re in the middle of an investigation so I really don’t, I can’t comment one way or the other. But, we have an outstanding group of people that work very hard to make sure we enforce the law and defend the Constitution of Michigan.”

 

Schuette also told FOX 17 his office is “always very open, very transparent, and we have a great group of lawyers who work very hard for the citizens of Michigan.”

Yes, we saw that with the Flint water problem. Snyder had all his attorneys trying to cover his arse after they totally screwed up the financial management of Flint. 

[t-pain]

When FOX 17 asked specifically about these emails that suggest prosecutors within his office are manipulating the way crime labs are reporting marijuana, and what his involvement is, Schuette answered:

 

“We’re in the middle of an investigation so I really don’t, I can’t comment

schuette is not investigating any wrongdoing. hes investigating how he got caught and how not to get caught by FOIA in the future.

[GregS]

Bumbling Bill isn't about to say anything. He is keeping his hand close to the vest, and won't show it until it is called. It will be important that any judges involved are watched closely. I plan to call Lansing and prompt legislators to perform an investigation.

[Willy]

I saw the interview however short it was, he couldnt hold back a smile.. what an ashole he is. what i want to know is , is this legal, or just an ethical violation. cause if its illegal there needs to be charges, if nothing else, tampering with evidence hmmmm?? 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Willy

[knucklehead bob]

schuette is not investigating any wrongdoing. hes investigating how he got caught and how not to get caught by FOIA in the future.

They are starting with charging the people that they work for, for "Freedom of Information"!

[solabeirtan]

... more like ridiculously overcharging peeps for FOI requests. 

[bobandtorey]

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. – First on FOX 17, we broke serious allegations that state police crime labs are being told to falsely report marijuana test results. This is resulting in misleading lab reports that an attorney claims creates felonies without real proof.

Attorney Michael Komorn believes a recent policy change in the way Michigan State Police forensic science crime labs report marijuana may have led to years of wrongful convictions.

Komorn called this a “perversion of science,” and “crime labs turned crime factories:” accusations that politics are trumping forensic science by escalating misdemeanor marijuana charges into felonies without proof.

It’s torn one Spring Lake family to pieces: a 6-year-old son taken away from his parents 14 months ago, in part, because of a disputed felony.

Since September of last year, Max Lorincz has been cheated of carefree moments with his son, Dante. Afternoons of uninterrupted fun have morphed into supervised visits.

“The doctor is telling me one thing, the judge is telling me another,” said Lorincz.

A card-carrying medical marijuana patient, Lorincz is caught between doctor’s orders and a judge.

For years he has been ingesting marijuana oils for serious stomach issues and pain after a debilitating back injury. Last year, during an unrelated emergency, a cop walked into his home finding a “smudge” of butane hash oil.

His medicine got him in trouble, and he was charged with a misdemeanor for having marijuana. But he has a medical marijuana card, which should protect him for having what’s called “usable marijuana,” under the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act.

So the charges could have been dropped, but that is not what happened.

The Ottawa County Prosecutor charged Lorincz for having a schedule 1 synthetic drug; that is no longer a misdemeanor, it is a two-year felony.  Komorn calls it a “bogus crime.”

"When you have a laboratory that is looking at a substance and reporting it in a way that makes it a schedule 1 instead of the marijuana they know it is, it's creating a crime,” said Komorn.

What Lorincz had is a marijuana extract: butane hash oil, made by filtering butane through the plant, extracting the cannabinoids, or chemicals unique to marijuana, namely THC, the plant’s most psychoactive ingredient.

The certificate of analysis of Lorincz’s MSP crime lab report includes the phrase, “origin unknown.”

“In this particular case a quantitation was not done, and therefore I could not conclude whether or not it was hemp, you're correct,” said William Ruhf, the MSP forensic scientist who completed Lorincz’s lap report.

Ruhf wrote this lab report, and then testified in April that he could not determine if this hash oil was natural or man-made. Again, this is the difference between a misdemeanor and a two-year felony.

Jay Siegel, a chemist with a PhD and the former MSU Forensic Science Director, disagrees.

“Yes, this is a preparation of marijuana. It was extracted from marijuana,” Siegel said.

Siegel told FOX 17 Lorincz’s sample, based upon the lab report, is natural marijuana.

He pointed out in this lab report’s data several tell-tale signs of the natural plant: a brown color, and several cannabinoids, including cannabidiol, cannabinol, and THC.

He said it is unreasonable to say this is man-made.

“It’s much easier to get marijuana and extract it; the syntheses are quite sophisticated,” said Siegel.

Then, why are state police forensic scientists writing “origin unknown” on reports like this?

"The substance that we're talking about has always known and been reported as from the lab as being marijuana, they know it,” said Komorn. “The lab is being forced, compelled, the policy changed to do this a certain way, to report this as a synthetic THC.”

“They also know that by reporting it as synthetic THC, they are stating that they can prove that it came from a synthetic source, as opposed to a natural plant source. This is a lie,” said Komorn.

Komorn said this is the result of a recent MSP Forensic Science policy change, which is not based in science. He obtained months of emails between 2013 and the present through the Freedom of Information Act.

They expose a lengthy debate among MSP forensic scientists, directors, and prosecutors associated with the Attorney General’s office, all regarding a specific procedural change for marijuana lab reports after 2013.

"The law enforcement community is focused on criminalizing medical marijuana patients, creating crimes in a crime laboratory that gives them no integrity,” said Komorn.

First, a crime lab technical leader wrote, “although THC found in foodstuffs and oils is most likely a marijuana extract... our scientists cannot determine if it’s marijuana without seeing any plant material.”

But, Siegel and Komorn already said this is not true.

Emails show after meeting with the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan (PAAM), a lab leader turns one prosecutor’s opinion into policy.

“That is my opinion, THC is a schedule 1 drug regardless of where it comes from,” Ken Stecker, a prosecutor who works with the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan (PAAM), which is affiliated with the Attorney General’s office, wrote in an email.

But, according to the law, where THC comes from does make a difference.

"The most damning evidence is that their own forensic scientists calls them out that they can't do it based on forensic science, and yet they do it anyways," Kormon said.

MSP forensic scientist Scott Penabaker wrote his concern to colleagues: “By going out on that limb and calling it THC, you jump from a misdemeanor to a felony.” He goes onto write, it is “highly doubtful any of these medical marijuana products we’re testing are synthetic.. That’s completely impractical.”

Then, controlled substances unit supervisor Bradley Choate wrote his heated opposition, including that identifying THC gives scientists two choices: one, marijuana possession as a misdemeanor; or two, synthetic THC possession, a felony; he wrote there is not a third choice.

But if lab reporting goes on like this, Choate wrote: “This could lead to the wrong charge of possession of synthetic THC and the ultimate wrongful conviction of an individual. For the lab to continue this possible miscarriage of justice would be a huge black eye for the division and the department.”

“You don’t just call up the Attorney General’s office and ask them what they think because they’re not scientists,” said Former Director of MSP Forensic Science John Collins.

Collins served as the director of MSP Forensic Science from 2010 until he said he surprised the department with his resignation in 2012 in part, because of these issues.

“In my experience, it was just a nonstop political game,” said Collins.

Collins reviewed documents in Lorincz’s case, including another email chain from Choate to the department citing their professional training materials.

Choate wrote that their conclusions are based on the evidence, not on political pressure, or other outside influences. Then he wrote, “whether or not an individual has a medical marijuana card is immaterial to how we report out our results.”

This was in response to another email, from MSP lab director Jim Pierson who wrote that lab tests from THC waxes and oils are coming back as marijuana, so they cannot arrest people.

Then Pierson wrote, “Is there a way to get this changed? Our prosecutors are willing to argue that one speck of marijuana does not turn the larger quantity of oil/wax into marijuana.”

“Any time that scientists, or administrators of scientific operations, if they would intentionally try to create ambiguity to create a political advantage is beyond unacceptable,” said Collins.

When FOX 17 reviewed some emails obtained through FOIA with Collins he said, “That doesn’t surprise me.”

Michigan State Police Public Affairs and the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan’s president responded to FOX 17, deferring to each other.

State police public affairs said, it is up to the prosecutors to charge crimes, and lab policy was changed to add the statement “origin unknown” when it’s not possible to determine if THC comes for marijuana or is synthetic.”

Then the PAAM president wrote, it is up to the crime labs to report science. Quote, “any accusation that the lab and PAAM are directing lab personnel to report crimes without evidence is untrue.”

Komorn doesn’t buy it.

"There is some wrongdoing going on, that they know that it's wrong, and they continue to do it otherwise,” said Komorn.

And Siegel, who is also a former professor of many of these MSP employees, urges them to uphold the integrity of science.

“What I would say to these people is get yourselves together,” said Siegel. “Get them all together to agree that this is bad science.”

Meanwhile, Lorincz is only allowed to visit Dante twice per week. He said he will not stop fighting for custody, and for the right to use the medicine he says does not hurt his body like pharmaceuticals.

“If nobody stands up for this and it just keeps going the way it is, how many more people are going to get thrown under the bus just for using their prescribed medicine? It's just ridiculous,” said Lorincz.

Thursday evening FOX 17 caught up with Attorney General Bill Schuette at another event.

When FOX 17 asked specifically about these emails that suggest prosecutors within his office are manipulating the way crime labs are reporting marijuana, and what his involvement is, Schuette answered:

“We’re in the middle of an investigation so I really don’t, I can’t comment one way or the other.  But, we have an outstanding group of people that work very hard to make sure we enforce the law and defend the Constitution of Michigan.”

Schuette also told FOX 17 his office is “always very open, very transparent, and we have a great group of lawyers who work very hard for the citizens of Michigan.”

An evidentiary hearing for Lorincz’s case was originally set for Nov. 5, but it was adjourned. The Ottawa County Prosecutor filed a motion suppressing the defense’s subpoenas for 13 people, many of whom are quoted from the emails in question.

The defense told FOX 17 they plan to re-file motions and set another hearing likely in December.

At this point, it may be up to another court to address the underlying allegations outside of Lorincz’s case.

Meanwhile, there is pending marijuana legislation statewide that would expand the definition of “usable marijuana,” according to the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act, to include concentrates and extracts; for example, House Bill 4210. This would explicitly protect people like Lorincz from charges.

We will stay on top of this case for you, and continue to investigate.

 

http://fox17online.com/2015/11/05/drug-felonies-without-credible-proof-allegations-of-politicking-in-state-police-crime-labs/

[t-pain]

anyone read his dumb book yet? i'm so curious about it.

[Alphabob]

We can only hope that this scandal will throw some of these criminals behind bars, while debarring the rest. This story looks like a combination of offering false evidence, conspiracy and contempt of court. In short, things appeared to proceeded in the following way: (1) The Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan and State Attorney General’s Office forced the lab to change its policy (against the advice of senior scientists), (2) The state lab began to incorrectly label marijuana specimens (mixed cannabinoids/plant material) as pure THC and (3) Prosecution is relying on the lab to incorrectly report these substances so that they can escalate crimes from misdemeanors to felonies.

The question is, how do we prosecute these criminals when they are running everything behind the scenes? In addition, why are these cardholders being charged with misdemeanors in the first place? I thought SC ruled only edibles or products made from preparations of bud are illegal, not the preparations directly made from bud themselves...

Excerpts from Michigan Penal Code:
750.157a: Conspiracy to commit offense or legal act in illegal manner; penalty.
(5)(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), ( c) and (d) if commission of the offense prohibited by law is punishable by imprisonment for 1 year or more, the person convicted under this section shall be punished by a penalty equal to that which could be imposed if he had been convicted of committing the crime he conspired to commit and in the discretion of the court an additional penalty of a fine of $10,000.00 may be imposed.

750.483a(6)(a): Tampering with evidence or offering false evidence
Except as provided in subdivision (b), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

750.411a: False report of crime or report of medical or other emergency; violation; penalty; payment of costs by juvenile; jurisdiction; definitions.
(b) Except as provided in subdivisions ( c) through (e), if the report is a false report of a felony, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


I thought this was interesting also. http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-58056---,00.html

“In February 2011, Attorney General Schuette created a new Public Integrity Unit to ramp up the fight against corruption in state and local government, protect tax dollars and restore the public's trust in government.  Upon taking office, Schuette identified public corruption cases as a priority.  The Public Integrity Unit heightens the focus on public corruption cases handled by the Office of Attorney General, working closely with local, state and federal law enforcement to uncover and prosecute crimes at all level of state and local government.”

So the office that is conspiring for public corruption is the same one in charge of handling public corruption cases. No wonder Michigan got a failing grade for its judicial system, we have a bunch of criminals acting as public servants.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Alphabob

[+washtenaut]

Good luck finding a Michigan prosecutor to bring charges against the conspirators.  That has been the problem with Schuette's shenanigans all along, imo.

[outsideinthecold]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I would welcome Schuette running for governor.

 

I am willing to risk a Schuette governorship for the chance to beat him at the polls.

 

Many here were disappointed that Snyder was re-elected but it should have come as no surprise. It was a predictable outcome even as Democrat Gary Peters was winning the Senate seat you a similar margin.

 

Snyder was considered by many independent voters as an outsider and not an establishment Republcan. No one would make that mistake about Schuette.

Edited November 6, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[trichcycler]

anyone read his dumb book yet? i'm so curious about it.

you're aware of his marital lineage ?

[bobandtorey]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I would welcome Schuette running for governor.

 

Oh he is going to run all right i'll bet on that and i believe he will win i don't think he will get any support from the cannabis folks most don't even vote It is only my Opinion 

i hope am wrong 

[Restorium2]

I'd hope when the time comes we can all at least agree to campaign for his Democratic challenger.

Yup. But if the Democratic Machine puts up that ex cop it's planning on, it's going to be real hard to do. We have some work ahead of us to turn that around. We need a better candidate.

[Restorium2]

Been thinking a few moves ahead .....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hackel

 

When asked about legalization he says:

 

"No," said Macomb County Executive Mark Hackel. "I just don't support it."

[Lancy]

Yup. But if the Democratic Machine puts up that ex cop it's planning on, it's going to be real hard to do. We have some work ahead of us to turn that around. We need a better candidate.

 

Gretchen Whitmer

[Restorium2]

Gretchen Whitmer

That's a much better choice. But my attorney already told me they want Hackel. So there will be some resistance within the party. 

[Restorium2]

In a Hackel v Schuette race, how could Hackel win by agreeing with Schuette on most subjects? I hope they argue some during the campaign if that's how it goes.

 

The Democrats should choose somebody that can beat Schuette, not make him look less bad.

They said they want Hackel because, and I quote: "We want to pick someone this time that can win."

[zaphod]

 

Been thinking a few moves ahead .....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hackel

 

When asked about legalization he says:

 

"No," said Macomb County Executive Mark Hackel. "I just don't support it."

 

 

No, I don't support him.  Just the thought repulses me.  After the fallout from that "snuff flick" at their jail.  If the Dems try and run him for statewide for any office, that would be stupid.

[Timmahh]

Why must you only choose between the piece of crap the Rs put up, and the Piece of Crap the Ds put up?

Over 60% of the registered voters in Michigan are independents, and the majority are conservative minded, regardless of which side the lean towards.

How about looking out side the lesser of the 2 evils?  May actually find something good for a change, like a common sense Independent that is far more inline with those not in the R or D traps.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Timmahh

[outsideinthecold]

The choice between the lesser of two evils is part and parcel of the American Democracy's two-party, one-choice system.

Edited November 7, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[zaphod]

Why must you only choose between the piece of crap the Rs put up, and the Piece of Crap the Ds put up?

 

Over 60% of the registered voters in Michigan are independents, and the majority are conservative minded, regardless of which side the lean towards.

How about looking out side the lesser of the 2 evils?  May actually find something good for a change, like a common sense Independent that is far more inline with those not in the R or D traps.

I'd rather fight them in the primaries and try to get an acceptable candidate on the ballot.

[t-pain]

edit: sorry too angry.