The Koch Intelligence Agency

[Restorium2]

We, as a country, are in a unpleasant financial position.

 

The INTEREST paid on Federal Government debt is rising faster than the GDP.

 

Unfunded liabilities are massive and spiraling out of control.

 

Seven years of zero interest rates have created huge structural imbalances. Imbalances that left unchecked will inevitably end in a repeat of 2007 only worse. Except our national debt has doubled. Nine trillion dollars since 2008 has succeeded only in widening income and wealth disparity.

 

Nobel Peace Prize aside, the Arab Spring has withered away into today's seething cauldron of conflict.

 

Sadly, as much as I wish the Democrats or any party had a solution, there isn't one on the horizon.

Our economy is coming back from several huge hits. We have been in the ditch for a while. Things are looking up. 

 

If we could get the doom and gloomist to quit throwing wet blankets on any bit of good news we could overcome the slump a lot quicker.

 

Never underestimate the power of the economy of the United States. We can easily overcome the interest on our debt just like in the past. But you have to want it first. Purposeful failure to get change never works. Tantrums don't work. Hard work and keeping your nose to the grindstone day after day with a positive outlook works. 

[outsideinthecold]

Resto, food stamps haven't helped anyone. It is the taxpayers, past, present and FUTURE who fund the program who are doing that, not the program that distributes this largesse.

[Restorium2]

Resto, food stamps haven't helped anyone. It is the taxpayers, past, present and FUTURE who fund the program who are doing that, not the program that distributes this largesse.

I have seen the breadwinner of a family get laid off for a couple of months. The foodstamps helped them immensely.

[Restorium2]

Hundred bucks worth a week really helped out. They had two boys, 2 and 3 years old. Mom cuts hair. 

[Restorium2]

None of them were/are fat.

[Kingdiamond]

That's what a proponent for Big Government would say. Big Controlling Government Overlords.

 

Just do the work to make sure people qualify and let them buy what they want with it. 

You cant help conservatives they are brainwashed into believing that the poor are the enemy by the GOP.

[Restorium2]

I hate being called a liberal and I don't understand anyone wanting to be called a conservative, these days. 

[+Malamute]

You cant help conservatives they are brainwashed into believing that the poor are the enemy by the GOP.

 

 And they are usually poor themselves... Self haters!

[outsideinthecold]

Our economy is not doing well when the interest on the national debt is greater than the growth in the underlying economy.

 

Think about it from a household perspective. What happens if the interest on your credit card bills is growing faster than your income?

 

Again, don't make straw man comparisons. Look at things without prejudice.

 

There is a world of difference between the post-WW2 economy and debt levels and those of today. Back then there wasn't the accompanying personal and private enterprise debt that exists today. Back then the debt was spent on investments in the infrastructure necessary to expand output. Today, that world is long gone and we are borrowing money to buy the $800 Pentagon toilet seats and the Ding-Dongs.

 

I have nothing against anybody, obese or skinny. But I don't think Snap dollars should buy obese people junk calories. Why do you, or anyone think they should.

[Restorium2]

Our economy is not doing well when the interest on the national debt is greater than the growth in the underlying economy.

 

Think about it from a household perspective. What happens if the interest on your credit card bills is growing faster than your income?

 

Again, don't make straw man comparisons. Look at things without prejudice.

 

There is a world of difference between the post-WW2 economy and debt levels and those of today. Back then there wasn't the accompanying personal and private enterprise debt that exists today. Back then the debt was spent on investments in the infrastructure necessary to expand output. Today, that world is long gone and we are borrowing money to buy the $800 Pentagon toilet seats and the Ding-Dongs.

 

I have nothing against anybody, obese or skinny. But I don't think Snap dollars should buy obese people junk calories. Why do you, or anyone think they should.

Our GDP to debt was 121 in 1946. It's 102, and falling, now. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Restorium2

[beourbud]

 

Can I explain what big government means? Probably not to someone who can't count. Or ignores obvious demographic trends.

Big government is unaffordable.

For example, it gives food stamps to obese people.

Wait, What? Oh the humanity!

They prolly shouldn't get any water either cause they are 60% water already.

[outsideinthecold]

So I'm a poor, self-hater Mal? Hmmmm. Nah, I'm just excited diodes on an electronic device. Just like you.

 

What is interesting about an insult however, is what it says about the person who makes it. Generally insults are self-descriptive. Maybe we all would benefit by spending more time looking in the mirror rather that at electrons on a screen.

[+Malamute]

I find the whole "both sides do it" to be a kindergarten response.

 

When you make a list and one side has 20 things and the other side has 3 things,... it does not make it equal that they both do it.

 

 

 

I am hearing bumper sticker points. 

 

And I think the one I am seeing throwing insults is you outsideinthecold.

 

Maybe check both our posts again?

[outsideinthecold]

Yep, debt to GDP in 1946 was about the same as today's Resto. Now project was that ratio will be in 2020 --and compare it to 1950. Bad comparison, Resto.

 

Then add in the unfunded 1946 liabilities (zero) and today's ($100,000,000,000,000.00) and ask yourself ......ah never mind.

 

It is easier to avoid incoming unpleasantness if you see it coming.

[Restorium2]

Yep, debt to GDP in 1946 was about the same as today's Resto. Now project was that ratio will be in 2020 --and compare it to 1950. Bad comparison, Resto.

 

Then add in the unfunded 1946 liabilities (zero) and today's ($100,000,000,000,000.00) and ask yourself ......ah never mind.

 

It is easier to avoid incoming unpleasantness if you see it coming.

No. It was not. I posted the numbers. You are hiding from the truth.

[Restorium2]

If you project the ratio forward from the last 12 months it's going in the right direction.

 

Just yesterday we broke the record set in the 70's for percent employed.

 

There's all kind of great news out there. We have the strongest economy in the world right now.

[beourbud]

last week I was returning some cans to meijers. There was a can half full so I dumped it out in the parking lot.

Little did I know, I may have been mistaken for a leach on society perpatrating a diabolical conspiracy to defraud the gov at the bottle return.

Edited November 19, 2015 by beourbud

[Kingdiamond]

 And they are usually poor themselves... Self haters!

It boggles the mind man.

[+Malamute]

 

 

Senator Elizabeth Warren gave a "Change Is In The Air" speech Wednesday, talking about corporate tax reform. If there was ever an Elizabeth Warren speech to see, it is this one.

Warren began by describing how lobbyists and corporate CEOs are swarming Congress and saturating the media with a pitch that says corporations are paying too much in taxes, that this is forcing corporations to flee abroad and the solution is to slash corporate tax rates. This story of overtaxation is told and retold.

Warren says there is just one problem with this: "It’s not true."

 

Actually, on average corporations only pay 20 percent of their income in taxes. Some pay zero. Boeing, GE, and Verizon paid nothing in 5 years while reporting $80 billion in combined profits.

"So what’s the problem with our corporate tax code? It’s not that taxes are far too high for giant corporations, as the lobbyists claim. No, the problem is that the revenue generated from corporate taxes is far too low.

This trend line is unmistakable. Over the past 60 years corporations contributed a smaller and smaller share of costs of running government. Back in the 1950s, corporations contributed about $3 out of every $10 in federal revenue. Today corporations contribute just $1 out of every $10."

 

The Amount Is Staggering

 

Warren said the amount of money the giant corporations have stashed outside the country in tax havens – and the tax bill they would owe – is staggering. They have $2.1 trillion in untaxed profits sitting offshore. This is the same as the combined total earnings of all U.S. corporations in 2013. (This amount of profits in tax havens means these companies owe our government around $620 billion, and this amount is growing by about $90 billion each year now.)

 

The tax bonus is not shared evenly; it is rigged for the really big guys. "Out of the millions of businesses in the U.S., just 50 corporations hold 75 percent of the $2.1 trillion in untaxed offshore profits. And even in that rarefied air, there’s a Tax Dodger Hall of Fame. Just 10 American companies hold more than a third of all those offshore profits," Warren said.

 

This rigs the game against families and smaller businesses that have to pick up the slack. Families and small U.S. companies pay 17.5 percent. The biggest corporations pay less, even zero.

"They get all the benefits but leave it to families and small businesses to pick up the tax bill," Warren said.

 

How To Fix Taxes

 

Warren laid out three principles for tax reform that benefits middle-class families and small businesses, not just wealthy multinational corporation:

 

1) Increase the share of revenue that corporations pay. The tax code now is so tilted toward the big corporations that any "revenue neutral" plan leaves the country with too little money to fund basic services.

 

2) Level the playing field between small and big businesses. The business tax code is rigged against small businesses, making it harder for them to compete.

 

3) Promote investment and jobs in the U.S. Lower tax rates and loopholes for hiding profits overseas encourages more outsourcing of jobs and investment. "Our tax code should protect jobs and investment here at home, period," Warren said.

 

Instead Congress Is Considering Giving Tax-Dodging Corporations "A Big Wet Kiss"

 

But instead of changing the tax code to benefit families and smaller businesses, Congress is acting under the influence of CEOs and corporate lobbyists.

 

"Congress talks to CEOs and their armies of lawyers and lobbyists who are pushing some genuinely terrible ideas," Warren explained. She went on to detail three tax proposals that are getting the most attention:

 

First, “deemed repatriation.” Warren called this "a giant wet kiss for the tax dodgers who have already parked $2.1 trillion overseas. Deemed repatriation says bring home the money, but pay only half of what you owe on it. Or, if the kiss isn’t wet enough, some are suggesting the repayment rate should be even less than half, maybe around 14 percent.

 

"Think about what this means. All the small business owners who have been paying their taxes in full can keep right on paying in full. But the tax dodgers will get a special deal.

 

"And what’s the total price tag for this juicy smooch? Estimates are in the range of $300 to $400 billion paid by U.S. taxpayers."

 

The second idea in front of Congress is to have a lower offshore tax rate. Maybe 35 percent here, 19 percent there.

"It’s like holding up a giant sign that says 'Higher taxes if you invest in the U.S., lower taxes if you invest abroad.' The result would be that every small business and family in America would be subsidizing foreign investments of multinational corporations — which is a great deal for those multinationals and our foreign competitors, but a terrible deal for us."

 

The third idea is something corporate tax lobbyists are calling an "innovation box." Companies that say they are "innovating" can pay a lower tax rate. "For big pharmaceutical companies and giant tech companies, a provision like this just makes paying taxes — or a chunk of taxes — optional. I strongly support a robust innovation policy – like investing in the NSF (National Science Foundation) and the NIH (National Institutes of Health), funding basic research, and encouraging companies to invest in research — but the innovation box doesn’t do a single thing to encourage new innovation."

 

The Same Rigged Game

 

Warren warned that lobbyists are excited about the coming tax reform. "But when I look at the details, I see the same rigged game – a game where Congress hands out billions in benefits to big, well-connected corporations, while people who really could use a break – the millions of middle-class families and small businesses that have been squeezed for decades – are left holding the bag."

 

And this is where Warren makes the big point:

 

"And that’s what this tax battle is really about: Who does this country work for? Is it just for the rich and the powerful, those who can hire those armies of lobbyists and lawyers? Or can we make this country work for millions of hard-working people?

 

"This isn’t a fair fight. The corporate giants are lined up to make sure tax changes tilt their way. America’s working families don’t have a zillion-dollar PR team to counter the false claim that corporate taxes are too high. Small businesses don’t have a zillion-dollar lobbying organization to fight back against tax giveaways for giant corporations."

 

Warren ends by saying she hopes people will pay close attention.

 

Also, in the Q&A Warren gives the best outline of what has led to the rigged game and the terrible inequality we have today. It is a must-watch.

Americans for Tax Fairness has produced a booklet of 16 charts and data tables that use publicly available data to disprove some of the claims made in support of the arguments for these huge corporate tax breaks.

[beourbud]

 

It boggles the mind man.

It has to be mental illness look at the responses in this thread.

 

The irony is these guys will never get the help they need from the party they support.

So all we here is....The End is Near. Lol

[zaphod]

Nope, you are making assumptions based on your bias not what was written.

 

Ever seen folks buy soda with Snap cards and empty them in a Meijer's parking lot to get the bottle deposits?

 

But all of this banter, while entertaining, ignores the basic point. We are going bankrupt.

 

Has our nation's balance sheet improved in the past ten years? No. The past five years? No. Any proposed solutions from either party? No.

 

The measure I suggest using is the NNW per-capita. In spite of the massive continuing debt financed stimulus it continues to decline. Include the ever increasing mountain of unfunded liabilities and we, as a nation, are already insolvent.

 

So what can be done? If highly intelligent folks like Zap and Mal don't see the outcome of the policies of BOTH major parties, one must conclude nothing will stop our continuing economic decline.

I don't know how much you know about the Modern Monetary System we as a country have been operating under since the creation of the "Federal Reserve", but all the "National Debt" crap is "Smoke and Mirrors" used to manage the expectations of the masses. Remember when Clinton balanced the budget and started running a surplus.  The Debt Clock in NYC started counting down and was promptly removed.

[cristinew]

Always have to have  a scapegoat  don't you..   big government is republican led  all big programs are led by republicans  look at government spending  pie   biggest slice of the pie is republican   Clinton handled Bush  a budget  look what you Republicans did to that,  all you did to that is Invade a nation and create  ISIS    Now go back to bashing 1 percent of the budget that bothers you,