Washington State After 2.5 Years Of Legalization

[+Malamute]

DPA report at Link:

 

http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/Drug_Policy_Alliance_Status_Report_Marijuana_Legalization_in_Washington_July2015.pdf

 

(excerpt)

 

Arrests and Judicial Savings

 

According to data from the Washington State

Administrative Office of the Courts, court filings for lowlevel

marijuana offenses by adults 21 years of age and

older have dropped 98% since voters approved I-502,

the initiative that legalized marijuana for adult use in

Washington.i In 2011, there were 6,879 low-level

marijuana court filings as compared to only 120 in

2013, the first full year after passage of I-502.ii The

data indicate that marijuana filings dramatically

decreased while court filings for other drugs remained

fairly constant.iii As anticipated, legalizing possession

for adults age 21 and older significantly reduced

marijuana-related court filings.

 

Rates of marijuana law violationsiv and convictions

demonstrate a similar pattern. According to the Crime

in Washington report, compiled by the Washington

Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, marijuana

law violations decreased by 63% from 2012 (6,196) to

2014 (2,316).v In addition, data from the Washington

State Caseload Forecast Council demonstrate that the

number of marijuana-related convictions in the state

decreased by 81% between 2011 (575) and 2014

(111).vi Many of Washington’s marijuana arrests and

convictions since possession became legal on

December 6, 2012were for possessing more than the

1-ounce limit.vii

 

Before the passage of I-502, a single arrest and

prosecution for the possession of marijuana cost the

state an estimated $1,000 to $2,000 in police,

prosecutor, defense attorney, and court expenses.viii In

fact, the state spent over $200 million on marijuana

enforcement between 2000 and 2010.ix It is reasonable

to infer that the state is now saving millions of dollars

by no longer arresting and prosecuting low-level

marijuana offenses.

[Highlander]

So now that the state has seen the desired cost savings, and the people that want a little marijuana can buy it whenever they want, and the people that want to produce it and have the money and political connections can get a license, who goes back and ever fixes this issue? The answer to that is likely an unfortunate "nobody."

 

Is that how prohibition supposedly ends? Those that continue to be prosecuted are so small in number that they are gone forever, but somehow that person could be any of us under the wrong circumstances? That is not a satisfying end in my opinion.

Agreed. And this is the core problem when MJ is "just legal enough" to allow some folks to make big dollars. The big dollar guys then use their financial leverage to squeeze out the little guy. In this case, that means there will always be some way for law enforcement to find a way to bust some cannabis users. And it's the poor folks who lose. I've been pushing this idea since 2009, but a lot of folks refuse to recognize the problem.

 

This is why I think the MMMA approach was spot-on. The MMMA protects all of the little people and none of the money grabbers.

[+Malamute]

Agreed.

[t-pain]

highlander, mmma protects all of the people? say that to bob. say that to torey. say that to steve and maria green.... the list of people who were not helped only grows longer and longer.

 

alcohol is legal, people are busted for alcohol use, possesion (minors), selling to minors, drunkenness, dui all of the time.

 

tobacco is legal to grow, people are still busted when they try to sell ciggs they bought from other states or even canada.

 

this "theres a law that protects everyone" ideal is so misguided that its sad to see.

 

take a trip to washington or colorado and see whats up.

[t-pain]

zap, please explain this to me.

 

you are complaining about i502 washington that people are being arrested for possessing over 1oz.

and yet you are praising michigan's mmma that people are being arrested for possessing over 2.5oz.

 

its the same bunny muffin. in both cases the police can and will arrest you.

yet i dont see the same vitriol against the mmma law that washington and colorado are getting.

 

its such a cognitive dissonance.

[Restorium2]

Examples of wrongs don't make something else more right because there are other wrongs. 

 

You try to fix the closest 'wrong' to you. At least point out the problems you can effect and will directly effect you. It's not cognitive dissonance.   It is "You have to pick your battles." 

 

Cannabis activists all across the country see the wrongness of quazi legalization so don't expect us here not to.

 

And it's not vitriol, it's just what is easily seen and can be spelled out calmly and effectively. It is what it is. Might seem harsh when the truth hurts but the truth is the truth. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by Restorium2

[t-pain]

fair enough. it just gets frustrating to see people praise the mmma and bunny muffin on i502 when they have the same problems with limits.

 

which is why milegalize does not have a weight limit, only a 12 plant limit. plus a maximum $100 fine if you are caught and go over said 12 plant limit.

[Restorium2]

fair enough. it just gets frustrating to see people praise the mmma and bunny muffin on i502 when they have the same problems with limits. which is why milegalize does not have a weight limit, only a 12 plant limit. plus a maximum $100 fine if you are caught and go over said 12 plant limit.

No one tried to call the mmma legalization either. It did what it said it was going to do. Where it doesn't we are all over it. Once bitten twice observant. 

[+Malamute]

besides the obvious discussion about people over an ounce still being busted in the same or increased amount,... one must remember that Washington never had a real MMj law. They only had an affirmative defense law. So arrests of patients were common for possession.

[outsideinthecold]

I thought WA state mmj patients were allowed to possess either six or eight ounces of mj and either four or six plants depending on their patient status.

[Norby]

It's an intrinsic problem with gov't, do we expect to fix it with an MJ law?  Vote for Milegalize and let everyone see the problem, it's the only way to get the people behind you to fix things.  If it stays the same it stays the same.

 

There is no perfect.  Don't let perfect be an enemy of progress.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Norby

[Highlander]

highlander, mmma protects all of the people? say that to bob. say that to torey. say that to steve and maria green.... the list of people who were not helped only grows longer and longer.

 

alcohol is legal, people are busted for alcohol use, possesion (minors), selling to minors, drunkenness, dui all of the time.

 

tobacco is legal to grow, people are still busted when they try to sell ciggs they bought from other states or even canada.

 

this "theres a law that protects everyone" ideal is so misguided that its sad to see.

 

take a trip to washington or colorado and see whats up.

 

No, the MMMA does not protect all of the people (even of the people who are supposed to be protected - legit CGs and patients), simply because LEOs will always look for an excuse to say "it's a grey area; let the courts sort it out.)  The best evidence in the early days of  the Redden case suggests that Bob was already somewhat known by the local LEOs, so when he used his real name and location on-line, LEO did a trash pull and  then got a warrant.  Two key points came out of the raid:  #1 the LEOs claimed  that since Bob didn't have a card yet (noone did), he wasn't protected.  #2 the LEOs told Bob that his plants were too big to have been started only after the MMMA took effect.  Two BS claims of grey areas.

 

What I liked and continue to like about the MMMA is that it doesn't allow for a framework for people/corporations or LEOs to make unlimited profit off MMJ.  As soon as people/corporations see an opportunity for unlimited income, you can see the buzzards circling overhead...then the big money interests throw personal and small grows under the bus and lobby for more regulation.  Also, some people/corporations try to go beyond the law but still use  the law as a shield, resulting in crappy case law, negative public perception, and more forfeited assets to fund future raids.

 

I think the comparison to alcohol and cigarettes is ill-placed.  Yes, they are both legal, and yes people still get busted - when they go outside the obvious limit of the law.  We've seen a lot of patients and CGs busted for BS charges.  I have never heard of anyone busted for alcohol except in cases of DUI, minor in possession, providing to minors, etc.  There is no grey area with alcohol.  Similarly, there is no grey area with cigarettes.  People only get busted for cigarettes if they are underage, providing to an underage person, or skirting tax/other laws by selling loose cigarettes or illegal/out-of-state cigarettes.

 

In other words, it's pretty easy to engage with alcohol and cigarettes and not run afoul of the law.

 

In my view, there is a very clear line between medical MMJ and recreational MMJ.  This is why I believe that even an imperfect MMJ law is better than no law, because at least it gives SICK people some protection.  And there should never be any confusion between the two.  That said, I'm also all-for any adult having the opportunity to use MJ recreationally.     But since recreational MJ is simply a fun option for some people, as opposed to MMJ being a real need for some sick people, I think we need to be very careful with what recreational MJ laws we support, so we can ensure that the little guy is never forced to buy from a monopoly and that recreational MJ is still distinct from recreational. 

 

Look what has happened in Washington.  Recreational sellers got very sad that the taxes on recreational MJ were higher than that for MMJ, so they lobbied to raise taxes on medical MJ = big money interests doing/saying whatever they think necessary to control the market and maximize profits at the expense of people who really need the medicine.

[Norby]

It is not progress for those left behind; it is the end of progress.

Umm, no it isn't but it is progress for mass amounts of people and reduces infractions on those that do go over.  Nothing is going to "win" unless people start standing up for others left behind.  It is progress and will get more people to see the problems so that they can be fixed.  If it stays the same it stays the same and more people go to jail.  The people have to be in it together or we all loose.

[outsideinthecold]

Anyone old enough to remember John Sinclair?

 

Anyone remember drafted army privates getting ten years in Leavenworth for possession?

 

Anyone wonder why an insensitive bully like Senator Jones over-reacted to Serna's characterization of police as jack-booted and thugs?

 

Anyone growing a few plants in their basement and not particularly paranoid about being arrested?

 

Anyone see progress, slower than some might wish, but progress all the same in overcoming eighty-five years of propaganda and demonization of a plant?

 

From a medical standpoint, isn't the MMMA about as good as it gets, at least at this point in time?

 

Not perfect and yes, if big government wants you they'll come and get you, but progress.

 

We can disagree, we can hate on each other, but we, the collective forum we, are making progress. My sincerest appreciation to everyone for the efforts that have carried us this far and everyone here for trying to protect that hard won ground and move us further.

 

Thanks. Some things are getting better.

Edited December 18, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[imiubu]

zap, please explain this to me.

 

you are complaining about i502 washington that people are being arrested for possessing over 1oz.

and yet you are praising michigan's mmma that people are being arrested for possessing over 2.5oz.

 

its the same bunny muffin. in both cases the police can and will arrest you.

yet i dont see the same vitriol against the mmma law that washington and colorado are getting.

 

its such a cognitive dissonance.

 

imo, you answered your own question.

 

Where does ML change any of that t?

[GregS]

What would the most reasonable approach to unwinding the mess the courts, police, and legislature have made from the MMMA look like? It seems we all agree that the options presently out there range from toothless half measures to plumb evil. My own take is that establishing unfettered use among the eligible population is best. How might the electorate react to that?

[Highlander]

Anyone old enough to remember John Sinclair?

 

Anyone remember drafted army privates getting ten years in Leavenworth for possession?

 

Anyone wonder why an insensitive bully like Senator Jones over-reacted to Serna's characterization of police as jack-booted and thugs?

 

Anyone growing a few plants in their basement and not particularly paranoid about being arrested?

 

Anyone see progress, slower than some might wish, but progress all the same in overcoming eighty-five years of propaganda and demonization of a plant?

 

From a medical standpoint, isn't the MMMA about as good as it gets, at least at this point in time?

 

Not perfect and yes, if big government wants you they'll come and get you, but progress.

 

We can disagree, we can hate on each other, but we, the collective forum we, are making progress. My sincerest appreciation to everyone for the efforts that have carried us this far and everyone here for trying to protect that hard won ground and move us further.

 

Thanks. Some things are getting better.

 

I'm not quite old enough to remember John Sinclair's original ordeal (as if anyone paid much attention to that in 1971) or John Lennon's concert in Ann Arbor in 1971, but I was keenly aware of John's story in the mid 80s when I went to an Earth Day celebration at Michigan State University in about 1988.  In a lot of ways, Michigan has been ground-zero for MJ reform for an entire generation.

 

They "gave him ten for two."

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+john+sinclair&view=detail&mid=A73133AE8CB43B4E991BA73133AE8CB43B4E991B&FORM=VIRE1

[t-pain]

in both cases (washington / mmma) the police can and will arrest you (for being over your limits).

 

imo, you answered your own question.

 

Where does ML change any of that t?

milegalize section 12 would possibly make any violation of marijuana crime (except providing to a minor and dui) a $100 ticket. not arrestable.

 

milegalize would protect, by my estimation based on washingtons statistics in this thread, 90%+ of the 20,000 non-patients who are arrested each year for possession of marijuana in michigan.

 

so if milegalize protects 18,000 people from arrest after it is passed, then it is a win, in my book.

does it protect everyone? of course not. is it the best proposal ever? of course not.

 

is it a change for the better? yes.

 

will it protect mmma patients who are over their limits from being arrested? possibly.

 

does milegalize hurt mmma in any way? no.

[t-pain]

You try to fix the closest 'wrong' to you.

milegalize will fix some wrongs.

 

who else will fix the wrongs, resto? whats the alternative?

whats the harm in supporting milegalize?

[Restorium2]

milegalize section 12 would possibly make any violation of marijuana crime (except providing to a minor and dui) a $100 ticket. not arrestable.

 

milegalize would protect, by my estimation based on washingtons statistics in this thread, 90%+ of the 20,000 non-patients who are arrested each year for possession of marijuana in michigan.

 

so if milegalize protects 18,000 people from arrest after it is passed, then it is a win, in my book.

does it protect everyone? of course not. is it the best proposal ever? of course not.

 

is it a change for the better? yes.

 

will it protect mmma patients who are over their limits from being arrested? possibly.

 

does milegalize hurt mmma in any way? no.

You think that if I grow all the plants I want to grow MiL is going to keep me out of jail? Seriously?

 

I'm thinking that I'm going to be outside the bounds, singled out, and slammed even harder because I didn't follow their rules. I'm actually going to be worse off. And all the others like me. 

[Restorium2]

milegalize will fix some wrongs.

 

who else will fix the wrongs, resto? whats the alternative?

whats the harm in supporting milegalize?

Amazing how I was posting the answer as you were asking the question. I know where you are going before you even go there. It's so obvious. 

[t-pain]

i think you will have to pay $100 fine. possibly $100 fine for each plant over 12 although i dont know the answer in that case.

[Restorium2]

i think you will have to pay $100 fine. possibly $100 fine for each plant over 12 although i dont know the answer in that case.

Who does? You might want to understand what you advocating for a little better, no? I'm thinking I would go to prison and they would be playing with my toys. 

[t-pain]

you might want to read the abrogate thread , specifically the post by the lids on riu where timmah does not understand the language of his own proposal.

 

timmah's language has the same loopholes that mmma has. funny no one talks about that.

[beourbud]

Legal Lies merely changes the punishment from death by forfieture to death by a thousand $100 cuts.