Why Is Marijuana Banned?

[TajMahal]

Full story here...........http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-influence/real-reasons-marijuana-is-banned_b_9210248.html?

 

 

 

"So alcohol prohibition finally ended -- and Harry Anslinger was afraid. He found himself in charge of a huge government department, with nothing for it to do."

 

[zachw]

The SOLE reason for prohibition was Racism. 

[beourbud]

So now,
Pharma
Alcohol
Insurance
Petro\Chemical
Tobacco
Corrupt representatives
Drug Cartels
Court
Law Enforcement
Right Wing Church Orgs
And fknrepublicans All lobbying against We the People, For Profit.

It is time to put People Before Profit.

VOTE. It's all we got.

Bernie Sanders. 2016

Edited February 12, 2016 by beourbud

[trichcycler]

we can also stop supporting these entities, we have our dollars, and the choice of who we patronize/support with those dollars every day, not just at the voting booths. 

[imiubu]

Our buying power is perhaps more effective than our votes.

 

They understand profit.  Morals, not so much.

[ilynnboy]

Yes profit is a huge motivator,

However most of these entities will Lose money to legalization.

That means our dollars mean Very little compared to the potential dollars lost to legalization.

I don't see that approach working..

It must be Made Into Law...That is Unavoidable!!!

[trichcycler]

yes sir, but while we wait for the next voting opportunity lets STOP buying products that pay for the anti's war against marijuana users. I can see these support tokens all around most homes, including mine. Styrofoam, Rx, many foods and veggies, ......its going to be difficult but worth it to me.  If we don't do that their will always be that  subconscious sting of hypocrisy. what fools must we be to literally support every entity that aims to jail us while we offer up the majority of our earned monies to them.

We sell out at every opportunity in trade for the perceived luxuries and force needed items that  these slimy corps have convinced the masses they couldn't live without.

it sickens me maybe more than others but I see it as an unchanging truth.  Who could deny if we took full responsibility for our own actions every day our circumstances all around would be much different in a positive way.

 

[Norby]

I'm not sure that will work with the entities the beourbud named. I am not so sure that the deck hasn't been thoroughly stacked against us, removing choice wholly. I suppose we'd promote your concept something like this:

 

Hey folks! If you love your freedom and independence, make sure you buy all of your

Pharma

Alcohol

Insurance

Petro\Chemical

Tobacco

Corrupt representatives

Drug Cartels

Court

Law Enforcement

Right Wing Church Orgs

From unlicensed, independent distributors rather than the fascist beneficiaries of a corrupt government.

 

See, it doesn't quite make sense. Every single sector described in beourbud's post enjoys a government-created and -protected monopoly/regulatory moat to prevent competition and consumer choice. The choice is not ours.

 

Basically, we have to address things in the voting booth to make headway from here, in my opinion.

So local breweries support anti legalization as much as budweiser?

What about investing your retirement in Pharma, the prison industrial complex, etc.

People can also not support bayer etc. with their over the counter meds. 

Corrupt reps are obviously tilting the scales towards certain corps that we shouldn't support. There's always a choice it's just too hard for some.

 

But he also said that republicans were lobbying, when they AND the dems are getting their dollars from lobbyists.  When teh dems "take over" they'll be shown as the control freaks they are of course you'll have to get to no one else to blame for some to see that.  What we need is another party, not the kodos and kang episode of the simpsons.

[t-pain]

i think its funny , the republicans have no control of anything by design (so they cant be sued for incompetence) and have convinced everyone that democrats would do the same or worse as the republicans.

 

but that idea doesnt syncronize with history.

 

flint, a democratic city since the dawn of time had fresh drinking water. republicans come in and in less than 5 years poison the well.

 

then people sit around and blame the democrats for it. sure buddy. yep, all their fault. darn them democrats and the people of flint and their right to vote amirite? lets just put in a dictator and .... oh sorry poisoned the water. poisoned the children. poisoned the businesses (gm plant) and economy (you eat in flint?) and market (try selling your flint house now).

 

but democrats and republicans are the same! no, they are not the same. maybe they vote the same way on some issues, as do we all. but fundamentally they have done everything they can to flower the poor, flower the women, flower the blacks and browns, and flower everyone who isnt a rich white man.

 

i'll never understand why people vote for the current republicans. sure theres one or two good republicans out there. not all are bad. the majority of republicans are terrible people that are actively fighting against the constitution and bill of rights.

[Norby]

And the DNC just chose to accept big business donations, they just want all the power.  Cuomo is the perfect example. The NYS MMJ program was all for money.  They are charging 10 fold what Colorado charges.  He created that monopoly and put even more restrictions than the Republicans would accept.  Now that Hillary can get her donations Bernie will slide back.  Both parties are corrupt in their own way.  Cuomo already has more blood on his hands for the MJ law there than MJ has for thousands of years.  Anna Conte died.  More people are dying.  My friend has Leukemia and is going to have tons of problems with this Dem imposed program.  He's even defending itsaying we'd rather have the people die(not his words) than have any MJ get into the wrong hands.

[Norby]

i think its funny , the republicans have no control of anything by design (so they cant be sued for incompetence) and have convinced everyone that democrats would do the same or worse as the republicans.

 

but that idea doesnt syncronize with history.

 

flint, a democratic city since the dawn of time had fresh drinking water. republicans come in and in less than 5 years poison the well.

 

then people sit around and blame the democrats for it. sure buddy. yep, all their fault. darn them democrats and the people of flint and their right to vote amirite? lets just put in a dictator and .... oh sorry poisoned the water. poisoned the children. poisoned the businesses (gm plant) and economy (you eat in flint?) and market (try selling your flint house now).

 

but democrats and republicans are the same! no, they are not the same. maybe they vote the same way on some issues, as do we all. but fundamentally they have done everything they can to flower the poor, flower the women, flower the blacks and browns, and flower everyone who isnt a rich white man.

 

i'll never understand why people vote for the current republicans. sure theres one or two good republicans out there. not all are bad. the majority of republicans are terrible people that are actively fighting against the constitution and bill of rights.

They don't get these things thru without the dems voting with them.  If the dems are in control there are still problems.  Lesser of 2 evils I will give you but look at the water problems all over the country.  Lead levels are hi in other places too. Michigan politics gives oppurtunity thru not having transparency.  It's the same with the 3 dems leaders in NYS.  2 of which have already gone to jail.  Cuomo is the only one left.  Yes Reps have screwed up THIS state since they've had control, but dems do it too and when tehy take over, you may not get poisoned wells but you'll get incarceration the same or worse because the money then goes to the dems in power.  They just bribe whatever party is in power, you'll see.  I only look like I'm for the R's because you don't see how bad the dems are, I just fled from a state where the MJ law wasn't there and they started taking away guns.  Get the D's in here and you'll first loose open carry and then all the pistol permit holders names will be printed in the paper then you'll get an assault weapons then they'll let corporations come back at the cost to the environment.  Pick your poison.  The MJ program will NOT get better under dems, not the way you want it.  If there isn't another way you just trade one freedom for another.  and sway back and forth with control long enough and we'll loose ALL of them.

[t-pain]

The NYS MMJ program was all for money.  They are charging 10 fold what Colorado charges.  He created that monopoly and put even more restrictions than the Republicans would accept.

is the nys mmj program better than what they had before (no mmj program) yes or no?

 

are republicans putting up any better mmj programs than democrat mmj programs? yes or no?

i've only seen the worthless cbd-only in red states.

 

i agree with you, cuomo sucks.

[t-pain]

They don't get these things thru without the dems voting with them.

i dont think you are correct on that. in michigan , the republicans own a majority in both the house and senate.

 

http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=724596

[Norby]

is the nys mmj program better than what they had before (no mmj program) yes or no?

 

are republicans putting up any better mmj programs than democrat mmj programs? yes or no?

i've only seen the worthless cbd-only in red states.

 

i agree with you, cuomo sucks.

According to a lot of the patients no.  Anyone who isn't on their death bed is out.  No smoking, patients can only buy from the cartel and they don't have CBD meds, prices are 10X that in Colorado and about 5x that on the street.  They have to spend hours and hours and then drive all over the state, if they can find what they need or get to a dr to get certified since there are only 100 and some in the state because they have to pay $250 and take a course, they just made it so that drs. could check which drs. they could refer a patient to, no one could see the list of certified drs. they just had to open up the phonebook for the state and start calling.  Black market would be better, who's going to arrest someone who's dying?

I never said any one party was better just that each one, if they get control, will cause deaths and poor living conditions. 

And as for guns, it's just logic.  Your gov't is killing people just as bad as society is, why do they get all the guns?

This isn't about hunting.  An "assault rifle" is responsible for less than 2% of the gun violence but all teh dem politicians, including Sanders since he went Dem, is calling for a ban.  Why does it have to get to them taking them away before you stick up for the rights of others and call out the dems, this isn't a football team.  Maybe you just can't handle the idea that neither party is on your side.  Maybe you really think that your rights are above others.

But yes, none of my friends can buy an "assault rifle" a clip over 10 rounds, their "assault rifles" aren't registered so they are all felons.  You'll never get it Zap, just stop asking. If you can't see teh gov't MAKING felons out of law abiding people being the same whether MJ or guns, tehn I can't show you. Maybe after someone breaks in to your or a loved ones house and the cops don't show up you'll understand.  No one has the right to say that more than 10 rounds is too many, esp when you don't distinguish a 50 cal from a shotgun from a .22.  My wife can't shoot a large gun and would need 20 because she has a .22, but you and a politician think you know what's better for me and my family and we're felons if we don't abide?  A gun can save your life or make the quality better just as MJ can for someone who doesn't need MJ. bunny muffin it's a democrat anti whose the reason we don't have smart guns.  Obama said he'd look into smart gun technology and doesn't realize it's been here for 20 years.  It's people who know nothing about guns that think they know what's best for you, like going to a priest for sex counseling.  These dem politicians have you paying for armed people to protect them why would they worry about you?  They can't keep the guns out of criminals hands( and if you say it's because of the laws I'll never discuss this with you again) and can't get their to protect you and the criminals will have whatever is banned anyway.  It's all about control, someone on the mj issue should realize this easier, so I thought.

 

So now none of my friends can bring their weapons to the range or even shoot on their own property for fear of the sound and a felony conviction or worse if you didn't drop the gun when you saw a cop, "he was turning around to shoot me and he had an AK(scary black gun)"

 

And 2k a month was the estimated bill for one child on med MJ.  At 10x the co prices($45/g for oil?) that would be $450 a day for what 60 - 90 days to treat a cancer patient?  out of pocket?  Might as well not have a law and risk it.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Norby

[Norby]

i dont think you are correct on that. in michigan , the republicans own a majority in both the house and senate.

 

http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=724596

Yet there are dems voting with them.  How did they get the transport law thru?  They couldve done it alone but most of the dems voted that way too. Hmmm, what other bills have gone thru and what have the votes been? Has the Mayor of Lansing done anything?  Other than lead the hash bash on a round of free the weed for some votes?  

And I don't see anyone blaming strictly dems for the water crisis just that it went beyond just republican control that f'd up.  Are you telling me that all teh dem politicians that lived in Flint were drinking the water? Why didn't they bring this up sooner?  And for the record I never said the dems would be worse as that's almost impossible to gauge since everyone weighs things differently, just that they'd be the same at taking away our freedoms and rights.  How many have died from Flint water and how many have died that could've been saved by med mj in NYS in the last 18 months. How many more will before this cartel law works itself out in NY?  How much will these families have to endure spending 2k a month on their kids?  How much time will they have to spend traveling chasing CBD meds. 8 hour drives for some all because of a dem governor who limited sites, jacked up prices beyond what the sick can afford and pocketed the money for the state on dispensaries designed to fail.

This article talks about a NYS senator talking to the parents of kids who died who could've been helped and pushing a bill supported by 2 R's and 2 D's.

 

As parents of disabled and deceased children told heart-rending stories Monday, Sen. Kirsten E. Gillibrand had to stop and compose herself.

The emotional pain that the families of brain-impaired children recounted would not be necessary, she told a news conference at Dent Neurologic Institute in Amherst, if medical marijuana were available like other regular prescription drugs.

But because the federal government still looks upon the substance as a harmful and illegal drug akin to heroin and LSD, even where it’s legal, Gillibrand said, more children with neurological disorders will continue struggling with damaging daily seizures.

“These laws are ignorant of the health benefits of medical marijuana,” she said. “It’s really a case of ideology getting in the way of medical science.”

The Democratic senator from New York is now working on a bipartisan basis with several colleagues to first ask the Department of Justice to change its view of marijuana as a harmful drug, especially in light of New York and 22 other states legalizing various forms to treat epilepsy and other neurological disorders.

Gillibrand said Monday that she will push for a new bill already enjoying bipartisan support that would amend federal law and allow states to set their own medical marijuana policies.

The law would not legalize marijuana, she emphasized, but would “respect” the states that establish their own medical marijuana programs, and prevent federal law enforcement from prosecuting patients, doctors and caregivers.

“These families are not just afraid of prosecution,” she said, “they’re really afraid of Children’s Services knocking on their doors to take their children away.”

As the parents of neurologically disabled children attending Monday’s event told their stories, Gillibrand said the federal government should recognize the value of cannabis in easing seizures. It is time, she added, to allow affected families to travel to states like Colorado and return with marijuana oils that doctors say help relieve symptoms and help children thrive.

One of those parents, Lisa Valle of Grand Island, attended the event with her daughter, Maya. The 7-year-old was born with a genetic neurological disorder marked by frequent debilitating seizures. As Maya fussed a bit from her wheelchair, her mother estimated she has suffered more than 1,000 seizures since Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo signed a law last July making some forms of marijuana legal in New York for medical purposes.

If she could benefit from oils derived from cannabis, Valle said, the frequency of seizures would diminish and Maya’s quality of life would vastly improve.

“It’s inhumane for Maya’s seizures to be ignored any longer,” she said, adding that marijuana remains a far safer alternative than some legal anti-epileptic drugs.

Other speakers included Buc Williams of Lockport who attended with his son, Tommy, and Wendy Conte of Orchard Park, whose daughter, Anna, died last July from her chronic neurological condition just days after Cuomo signed New York’s new law. Her family had even taken steps to move to Colorado, where marijuana is legal, to seek the oil derivatives that she said would have helped Anna.

She is convinced, she said, that obtaining marijuana oils to relieve her daughter’s seizures would have helped save her life had they been available.

Children such as her daughter, she said, “are casualties of a failed system.”

“Even though our Anna was not able to benefit,” Conte said, “I strongly believe this will help other families from experiencing the worst kind of loss – the loss of a child.”

Gillibrand’s effort is so far supported by other senators such as Democrats Corey Booker of New Jersey and Barbara Boxer of California, as well as Republicans Rand Paul of Kentucky and Dean Heller of Nevada.

It also received support on Monday from Dr. Laszlo L. Mechtler, the Dent Neurologic Institute’s medical director.

“Doctors must have the authority and respect in order to be true advocates for our patients,” he told reporters.

Gillibrand, meanwhile, said she is “optimistic” about the chances of success for her bill.

“We need to modernize our laws,” she said. “There are too many stories like the ones from those standing here today.”

 

And I only say these things because you seem to think that all we have to do is vote in dems.  You are going to be very dissappointed when it doesn't work.  As Bill Maher said, there is no politician that will stand up for legalization, well decrim, a bunch would love to regulate it low enough to keep the prisons full and get all that $$$$, just like Cuomo.

[t-pain]

i'm not the ' vote in all the dems' guy

 

i think we agree more than we disagree. cheers

[+washtenaut]

We are all products of our past experiences.  Norby, your opinions seem to have been formed largely from your experiences with NY state politics.  Most on this site have experienced the Michigan state political workings, not the NY state problems.  In Michigan recently, the Repubs have had control and they have screwed over this community.  You experienced frustrations living under Dem control and corruption in NY and are clearly wary of Dem control.

 

Obviously we are all frustrated with the system and we each blame those we have seen as the unreasonable obstructionists....the controlling party.  Currently our system is broken.  Politicians spend their time and energy ensuring they can get re-elected.  They are beholding to those that will get them re-elected.  We all feel they should be more responsive to the people.

 

It seems that too many threads break down into this Dem-Repub discussion.  Please keep in mind that it is the system that is broken

[knucklehead bob]

We are all products of our past experiences.  Norby, your opinions seem to have been formed largely from your experiences with NY state politics.  Most on this site have experienced the Michigan state political workings, not the NY state problems.  In Michigan recently, the Repubs have had control and they have screwed over this community.  You experienced frustrations living under Dem control and corruption in NY and are clearly wary of Dem control.

 

Obviously we are all frustrated with the system and we each blame those we have seen as the unreasonable obstructionists....the controlling party.  Currently our system is broken.  Politicians spend their time and energy ensuring they can get re-elected.  They are beholding to those that will get them re-elected.  We all feel they should be more responsive to the people.

 

It seems that too many threads break down into this Dem-Repub discussion.  Please keep in mind that it is the system that is broken

 

[Norby]

That is exactly what I am trying to get across.  Because people here are trying to get dems back in control they see me as a R.  I just want people to realize they are playing it like a football game, making excuses for the dems when they don't realize that when teh dems get in it will be just a different kind of hell.  that's the game they play with us, batting control back and forth between 2 parties.  So under the dems you may not go to jail but good luck finding a dr and the price will drive you to other meds under the dems.  I'm trying to head off a whole nother hell people are going to go thru when teh dems get in and jump to another plan.  Unfortunately SNyder is soo bad here with poisoning the water, work, the crime lab, etc.etc.etc that he'll have you happily jumping back to the dems with no reservation.  I don't blame you I just want people to know it may seem different in comparison because Snyder's f ups are SOOOO blatent.

They have already divided and conquered, doing the same thing over and over will not get us our rights.  I'm trying to brainstorm another way to get our point across that works NO MATTER who gets elected.  The current plan won't work in practice, your not going to vote out all the R's and if you do the dems will just push to regulate like NYS, they all fell in line on the transport bill.  Do you guys hear nothing of Bill Maher?  Everyone seemed to like it but noone seemed to get it.  We either have to vote it thru ourselves or make the politicians abide by science and current practice with alcohol and smokes.  I can grow and brew all I want and share.  Selling is income tax related and minors it should be like cigarettes. 

 

Take a play from the Kochs, hire some veterans to blow up the phones all day about MJ related issues with the reps.  Write letters, FOI requests, get news orgs to actually do stories like they are in NYS following a childs quest for CBD.  There has to be another way, there just has to be.

[Restorium2]

That is exactly what I am trying to get across.  Because people here are trying to get dems back in control they see me as a R.  I just want people to realize they are playing it like a football game, making excuses for the dems when they don't realize that when teh dems get in it will be just a different kind of hell.  that's the game they play with us, batting control back and forth between 2 parties.  So under the dems you may not go to jail but good luck finding a dr and the price will drive you to other meds under the dems.  I'm trying to head off a whole nother hell people are going to go thru when teh dems get in and jump to another plan.  Unfortunately SNyder is soo bad here with poisoning the water, work, the crime lab, etc.etc.etc that he'll have you happily jumping back to the dems with no reservation.  I don't blame you I just want people to know it may seem different in comparison because Snyder's f ups are SOOOO blatent.

They have already divided and conquered, doing the same thing over and over will not get us our rights.  I'm trying to brainstorm another way to get our point across that works NO MATTER who gets elected.  The current plan won't work in practice, your not going to vote out all the R's and if you do the dems will just push to regulate like NYS, they all fell in line on the transport bill.  Do you guys hear nothing of Bill Maher?  Everyone seemed to like it but noone seemed to get it.  We either have to vote it thru ourselves or make the politicians abide by science and current practice with alcohol and smokes.  I can grow and brew all I want and share.  Selling is income tax related and minors it should be like cigarettes. 

 

Take a play from the Kochs, hire some veterans to blow up the phones all day about MJ related issues with the reps.  Write letters, FOI requests, get news orgs to actually do stories like they are in NYS following a childs quest for CBD.  There has to be another way, there just has to be.

The situation we have just entered into with The Supreme Court Appointment shows how every (D) has a value when it comes to appointing a new justice. Strength in numbers works for the very most important job a president can do, shaping our nation. This appointment will shape our country and your future forever. If we only had more (D)'s right now. 

I'm thankful for the teaching moment so we can put aside all the smoke and mirrors and see what really matters and when, NOW. 

[Norby]

Like Wasserman shultz?  Each party would lead us down a different path of destruction without being kept in check.  Unfortunately they aren't "keeping each other in check" anymore as to our rights, both have just doubled down on taking our rights and accepting huge loads of cash, selling control to the highest bidder.

 

I don't particularly "like" Bill Maher but he has it right when he says that neither party has our backs.  If dems get in you'll see the likes of NYS law where it gets turned into a cartel.  They HAVE the law that the legislature here is moving towards.  Both republican and dem alike.  A few politicians in Ann Arbor and Flint don't represent the dem platform.  They are outliers from teh establishment.  I'm telling you that another path needs to be highlighted alongside voting for dems or you'll be handing it over to dems for them to throw you under the bus.  I think dems are the lesser of the 2 evils but I'm not prepared to settle for giving my power to candidates who will use it for their other pet projects all the while giving lip service to the reason I voted for them.  As of now I'm still thinking 3rd party myself.

[Restorium2]

Like Wasserman shultz?  Each party would lead us down a different path of destruction without being kept in check.  Unfortunately they aren't "keeping each other in check" anymore as to our rights, both have just doubled down on taking our rights and accepting huge loads of cash, selling control to the highest bidder.

 

I don't particularly "like" Bill Maher but he has it right when he says that neither party has our backs.  If dems get in you'll see the likes of NYS law where it gets turned into a cartel.  They HAVE the law that the legislature here is moving towards.  Both republican and dem alike.  A few politicians in Ann Arbor and Flint don't represent the dem platform.  They are outliers from teh establishment.  I'm telling you that another path needs to be highlighted alongside voting for dems or you'll be handing it over to dems for them to throw you under the bus.  I think dems are the lesser of the 2 evils but I'm not prepared to settle for giving my power to candidates who will use it for their other pet projects all the while giving lip service to the reason I voted for them.  As of now I'm still thinking 3rd party myself.

You have to look at the big picture and all three branches of government. How will the third party help in appointing a Supreme Court Justice that doesn't want to take away your choices? Or want to let them waterboard you while you are innocent and not when you are guilty? Torture versus punishment. The answer is that it will not. 

[Norby]

It sends a message that I'm sick of both parties chipping away our rights.  You realize the dems are teh regulation party?  How will they making cartels and making mj meds come from a lab help?   Like people said in teh thread about appointing a justice, scalia voted that

He sided in a 5 justice majority to allow flag burning.

 

He voted against blanket strip searches and DNA collecting of arrestees.

 

He is pro Gun rights.

 

and the dem apointees are generally someone who would vote to take away guns.

I'm for every other thing the dems are for except guns and fiscal policy(coming from NY what would you expect?) but if you loose your ability to defend yourself against your gov't you could loose every other right.  The second protects the other ammendments.  The dems don't really think that highly of the constitution in general.  It's much more complex than you lead on.  A balance of power is more important than you give it credit for.

[Restorium2]

It sends a message that I'm sick of both parties chipping away our rights.  You realize the dems are teh regulation party?  How will they making cartels and making mj meds come from a lab help?   Like people said in teh thread about appointing a justice, scalia voted that

He sided in a 5 justice majority to allow flag burning.

 

He voted against blanket strip searches and DNA collecting of arrestees.

 

He is pro Gun rights.

 

and the dem apointees are generally someone who would vote to take away guns.

I'm for every other thing the dems are for except guns and fiscal policy(coming from NY what would you expect?) but if you loose your ability to defend yourself against your gov't you could loose every other right.  The second protects the other ammendments.  The dems don't really think that highly of the constitution in general.  It's much more complex than you lead on.  A balance of power is more important than you give it credit for.

That's totally BS. Can't put it any other way .....  If you are going to use that kind of talking point you might as well be on Trump's Reality Show. You are not real. I'm talking about real life decisions, not hype and lies. 

[Restorium2]

You see here Norby, every time it becomes real clear how having a majority of (D)'s is what will help, you go off and start acting like you can see Alaska from your back window. We get a chance to see things the same and you revolt twice as hard with BS talking points.