Uh, Oh, Did This Hermie On Me?

[zachw]

Not quite five weeks: day 33 of flowering. I am VERY pleased with how the plants are doing. Here's Burmese Kush #1:

 

 

I've done only minimal maintenance during flowering, but I did trim two shoots from the bottom of this plant. Did an inspection and found this on one of them (crappy Carson Zorb pic):

 

 

It's more apparent to the naked eye, but it looks like a male to me. So far I haven't found any others.

 

(As mentioned in a previous post, one of the plants decided to start flowering under 18/6 and thus determined the 12/12 flip. Must of slipped during my usual meticulous records; I suspect it is the same plant above, but I didn't name the photo correctly and aren't 100% sure.)

 

ANYWAY, I'll be keeping a very close eye on things to see if any more develop. 

 

Any words of wisdom from the grow gurus here?

 

 

[suneday11]

Yeah, you got some male parts. Pluck 'em and watch them if that's your style, otherwise give 'em the shears.

 

If you keep it, check in everyday, pull stuff away from stems and really get in there.

 

Curious....were these feminized seeds?

Edited February 20, 2016 by suneday11

[Willy]

That picture is pretty rough, but to me that sure looks like a male flower pod. nip it off. and hope another doesn't grow. me i watch and wait. once it pops your pretty much done unless you need seeds. 

 

I see a nutrient problem there as well, the leaves are curling under a sign of distress. Could be a lot of things. guess it depends on what your using for nutrients and how much. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Willy

[trichcycler]

maybe jut one or two will show their ugly boy selves hopefully. back off the nitrogen completely and you're going to have a tasty gal there I think.

if the genetics are important to you a single application of "Reverse" will stop this sexual confusion in a couple days, forever. I've used it successfully and

even smoked thebjeezuz out of the finished product. You'll use like a teaspoon to treat and the 20$ quart sits on your shelf for years at the ready. its a plant lipid that interrupts the hormonal messages, specifically the sexual response.  Strangely clones/copies of a treated mom will exhibit showy larger calyx and some other desirable traits. It saved maybe the best genetic of all time for me. If worried about consumption discard the plant and take a  clean clone when she finishes, give the rest to me..

[zachw]

Thanks for the replies.

 

- leaves aren't curling, must be a funny angle (looking at the underside of leaves mostly)

 

- been feeding it jacks 10-30-20 since it went into flower. 1/4 t/gallon as recommended for every watering feeding. A couple times I added some 5-1-1 fish emulsion because it looked like a small bit of N deficiency but I'm done with that. No other nutes to speak of.

 

- plant were grown from 5 year old seeds, don't remember source but labeled Burmese Kush so let's just call it "possible hermie bag seed". All 3 plants were female and are in full flower now.

 

- Never heard of "Reverse". Is it a colloidal silver product? Who makes it? I'm not really that concerned with the genetics of this one plant however. My grow is small and will remain that way and have enough other stock to work with. 

 

In the meantime I'll keep a close eye on things. After feeding I like to keep them closed off for a couple of days but will now check on them every day. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by zachw

[medmanmike]

Yeah, you got some male parts. Pluck 'em and watch them if that's your style, otherwise give 'em the shears.

If you keep it, check in everyday, pull stuff away from stems and really get in there.

Curious....were these feminized seeds?

You might want to spray the nanner with water before plucking it. The water will destroy any pollen (if there is any).

[zachw]

Followup:

 

- looked just now and can't see any more male flowers, possibly one or two more forming again on older, lower branches. Nothing obvious like on the branch I trimmed. Certainly nothing on main cola but it's getting pretty thick in there!

 

- willie said "the leaves are curling under a sign of distress" and I said it must have been the angle of the photo. But good eye, Willie, the curl is more apparent today! 

 

- The pots are drying about every 3 days, so I figure a few more feedings (just a guesstimate for water only at weeks 7 & 8.)  I'm on 10-30-20. Should I get something without any N for those last few feedings?

 

Tanks!

[trichcycler]

those "last few feedings" should be water mostly, or if you must, 1/4 strength till the end. You're near half way through flower with a nice build up of salts in your soil. could also alternate water-feed-water-repeat..

Right around the 60 day mark these salts will be depleting, right before harvest. Using pure water for the last week at least will prove a finer taste.

Nothing wrong with Jacks at all btw.

Edited February 20, 2016 by grassmatch

[zachw]

Been using 1/4 teaspoon per gallon with the Jacks pretty much the whole flowering. That's the smallest dosage they list (says use 1/4 for every watering, or 1/2 for every 3 weeks). 

 

So you like doing just water for the last week, not last two?

 

Group shot:

 

[zachw]

A better view of the suspect, after I realized that my P&S camera takes better macros than my Carson Zorb USB!

 

 

Here is what the flower looks like cut open (camera w/ loupe):

 

[t-pain]

the problem is that when a plant hermies, it usually goes for the gold. meaning as many seeds as possible.

 

this means you can get mixed flowers, with male pollen sacs inside the female flowers.

or you can get male flowers inside the buds.

 

ok no big deal one plant. except the pollen inside the buds can fly to your other plants.

 

consider seperating the evil hermie. in another tent or room if possible to save yourself some seed trouble.

 

sometimes the plant only sends one flower. so you can be safe or sorry or chance it.

[t-pain]

and yeah that looks like a male flower. its called a 'nanner' because it opens up to yellow banana like structures.

 

so it starts pointing up, green, then stems out to point down, opens up and pollens out.

 

lots of good images here:

http://www.breedbay.co.uk/forums/breedbay-grow-guides/201341779-breedbays-ultimate-plant-sexing-guide.html

[zachw]

and yeah that looks like a male flower. its called a 'nanner' because it opens up to yellow banana like structures.

 

so it starts pointing up, green, then stems out to point down, opens up and pollens out.

 

lots of good images here:

http://www.breedbay.co.uk/forums/breedbay-grow-guides/201341779-breedbays-ultimate-plant-sexing-guide.html

 

Cool, I was actually reading that very page before coming back to the forum here.

 

Anyway, I don't have the means to maintain this plant in another area. Will have to keep a very close eye on it; don't want to harvest early but also don't want to risk the other ladies...

[trichcycler]

So you like doing just water for the last week, not last two?

keep n mind Jacks prolly doesn't care if you smoke unburned carbs in your herb....as long as those tomatoes are giant and those flowers are brilliant

 

I add my organic ferts to the soil in the octopots and don't concern my self with "flushing". I arrived at my fert sweet spot after measuring tds in run off at 30, then 60 days in flower, control, etc. I test my leaves with a refractometer often and got a good idea of when my carbs are loaded, and when they're burned healthily, and when they are not.

 

I've recently begun experimenting with basal salts in the octo res and my normal organic nutes in the soil. This scenario may be closer to yours, as I skip the addition in the last two weeks or so. If not my buds would be harsher for the loaded unburned carbs/mag etc. Adding the ferts to soil is a little different because they can build up a bit depending on metabolism/temps/health/c02. YOu can check this with a "dry" run of soil run off compared to run off currently. Your tds should be lower than if checked at 30 days for instance, with your sweet spot to be discovered. Organic ferts are more forgiving in this area for thought, but balancing basal salts is a breeze too, with a short learning curve.

[medmanmike]

I test my leaves with a refractometer often and got a good idea of when my carbs are loaded, and when they're burned healthily, and when they are not. .

gm, would mind elaborating on the above? I use my refractometer to measure the "Brix", or sugar levels. Not sure what you mean by "carbs are loaded..."

[trichcycler]

sugar/carbs load is what I meant to say sry.   the rate at which their burned and their presence I search for. If I force feed with salts and even hot ferts I can see this represented. like real high brix at harvest time is not desired for instance.  They don't equate to sweet tasting herb for me.

[zachw]

Found a male on another of my Burmese Kush plants. A single flower on a lower (older) branch.

 

5 weeks in flower today. Still sticking with the plan, paying careful attention to new flowers.  A little bummed, but not majorly so. As mentioned a few times, these were from old seed that I now consider to be bag seed. Will likely buy a few clones with known genetics for the next run.

 

1) I read that light deprivation can cause hermies at lower branches, anyone heard of this?

2) Any reason to maintain any of the vegging clones that were taken from what are now hermie moms? 

 

And oh yeah:

 

3) Wife asked a question that I have not been able to find an answer to. Most female plants have a window in which they are viable for pollination. Is there an age at which cannabis flowers cannot be pollinated (or is it past the point of maximal potential so it doesn't even matter)?

Edited February 21, 2016 by zachw

[t-pain]

sugar/carbs load is what I meant to say sry.   the rate at which their burned and their presence I search for. If I force feed with salts and even hot ferts I can see this represented. like real high brix at harvest time is not desired for instance.  They don't equate to sweet tasting herb for me.

are you testing the brix of the leaf or flower? curious on your results.

[t-pain]

3) Wife asked a question that I have not been able to find an answer to. Most female plants have a window in which they are viable for pollination. Is there an age at which cannabis flowers cannot be pollinated (or is it past the point of maximal potential so it doesn't even matter)?

some female plants will throw new white "pistils" even on the day of harvest. female plants want them nanners. its biology.

 

which means a plant can be pollenated as long as there are white pistils.

 

white pistils are the little frosty "hairs" that come out of the female calyx. they eventually turn orange/brown and shrivel up.

 

 

so your question should be 'how long does it take for a seed to form?' that one, i do not remember. you'll end up with a bunch of immature seeds though.

 

its sad, but hermies are still fine to smoke ;P

[imiubu]

I had this happen due to stress (I think lol).  At 1st. it was just one and I clipped it off.

The next day more.. then more.  I chopped it and it looked more like potpourri in the

jar w/ all those little yellow flowers haha.

 

I am still a newb but am now 100% certain what them nanners look like

 

Oh.. and it smoked just fine given it was taken early and all that.

 

Good luck zackw.

[trichcycler]

are you testing the brix of the leaf or flower? curious on your results.

I've tested it all but settled on about 12 inches down, not new, not old, leafs are consistent. Buds are fun to read too but I don't need to destroy little bits of bud to find what I seek. My numbers are not as important as their fluctuation and response to changes I may have introduced. Like a "9" on Wednesday that doesn't reduce as fertilizers are depleted in weeks to follow. Or a really high number at my harvest window...Sometimes they'll load on the initial transplant to flower and I have a curve of expectations from experience. The units are cheap enough for anyone to play with in the grow room. I spent 50 bucks on mine in 2009. Its just one more way for your plant to communicate with you while growing and before killing. Hydro was when my unit shined for me but I've used it to follow trends in my grow room with soil grown too. If I were near I'd loan you mine for a few months. if all was well to begin with you would give it back and not buy one or yourself. Some of us are plant geeky is all. I see my highest brix fluctuation with the addition/removal of c02.

[t-pain]

i've seen them and i know how they work and they are a useful test. can probably find cheapo ones on amazon.

 

just havent seen too many talk about brix testing so i figured i'd ask.

 

brix measures the sugar content in the plant liquids.

 

 

so you can use this to tell if your plants are loaded with sugar or not. this is interesting to test organic vs conventional veggies and fruits at your local grocery store , garden or farmers market.

 

ever wonder why you sometimes get a watery watermelon vs a delicious, flavorful and sweet watermelon? heh

 

do higher sugar levels in the plants mean healthier plants? that would be my question i guess.

 

 

and thanks, you are a wealth of knowledge grassmatch.

[trichcycler]

sometimes higher sugar can indicate a healthy plant. sometimes it can indicate one that is not functioning properly(unburned carbs)  Maybe if eaten the plant would taste sweeter, but it surely does not when smoked/vaped. not to me or mine. When my plants are tapering off their needs I taper off their supply. All of the resources I can control are tapered. Temperature, light intensity, light source, nutrients(ideally).

 

I also grow fruits and veggies on the farm and can tell you a fertilized watermelon/tomato/apple/pear etc will taste so much better than one in need. I can taste fertilizer overloads in tomatoes  indoors with purposeful intention. I never did smoke them for comparison though hehe.   I would test the leaves during growth and fruiting and begin testing fruit when color begins changing. The fruit will have higher brix than the leaf, but the flower of the cannabis is the same as the leaf. The fert overload appears in the leaf before the fruit.

Cannabis plants left to flower past their time will turn sour, not in a good way, but some people like this strangely. This is when fertilizer overload is very apparent in a harvest plant. It just is not metabolizing enough to burn those carbs.

 

my first experience with the unit was comparing LED vegged and flowered cannabis. This is where I learned the led was not intense enough to burn properly. not to be confused with growing properly. If I was into photography of cannabis I would use the over ferts with led light sources for the best looking photo buds.

[trichcycler]

moldy cannabis plants often read a 10 Brix, for the ridiculous nitrogen fed to them at that time.

[t-pain]

you could write a book on how to tell if your plant has enough ferts or too many ferts.

 

the rest of us plebeians are stuck waiting for leaves to shrivel and change colors to find out if we have fert problems.