Selling Clones And/or Seeds

[PotGod]

I'm not sure if this is the correct location for this but it is a caregiver issue since it is about someone providing something to someone else. I have done a lot of searching but was unable to get any information. I know that the laws in MI are vague and have a lot of grey areas so the real answer depends on your opponent(prosecutor) interpretation, personal views, etc. so I'm looking for things you have heard or cases you know or have heard about that you can provide some insight with.

 

What is the legality of selling seeds or clones in MI? 

 

Is it the same for a P2P(patient to patient) sale, CT2P(caretaker to patient) or CT2CT?

 

I'm pretty sure it's best to consider a clone, rotted or not, to be a plant. I'm not saying this or anything is the law, I'm just stating what is a "safer" way to look at it and notice I did not say "safest". LOL Are seeds considered anything else than a seed?

 

I have numerous other questions and I am sure others do as well and the discussion will probably create more, so I just start here and go from there. This is obviously something that open for interpretation and can/will change but if someone with some legal knowledge can give us some input, that would be great. If the members only area is a better place to get this answered, please let us know.

 

I apologize in advance of this has been discussed and if it has please give me some more info on what to search for because although I found some posts that briefly mention it, there are no threads with a title similar to this. Thanks

[williams2311]

From what i get from all the stuff i read here selling cannabis and or clones are not protected unless the two parties are connected threw the state registry. Just my two cents im sure the ones with more knowledge will chime in.

[coreyz]

Seeds are sold as novelty, or souvenir items

[t-pain]

in the uk, seeds are sold as souvineers. in usa seeds are illegal.

 

under the mmma you can only be a caregiver to 5 connected patients at one time. otherwise you will have to rely on sec8 defense after you are arrested, jailed and brought before a judge.

[PotGod]

Seeds are illegal under federal law but nothing says they are under any state law and in particular Michigan's law. Every state law and everything being done by every state is illegal federally so there is no need to talk about that. My questions pertain to Michigan only and concerning the transfer/sale, it would follow the law as much as possible in regards to licensed caregiver to registered patient, licensed caregiver to licensed caregiver, etc.

 

Now I'm not saying I'm right or wrong here, but couldn't it be argued by your attorney that seeds are actually inherent to growing any plant, therefore seeds could be found in any usable material a caregiver gives to his patients. If a caregiver gives material to a patient that contains seeds, I don't think(or it could be argued) they are breaking the law by also providing seeds. Therefore it isn't any more legal or illegal than transferring the usable material as far as the grey areas of the law are.

 

There's obviously no way to say this would work or not if you were brought up on some BS charges for having seeds in the material you provide your patients, providing "illegal" seeds to them, thus violating the law, which says nothing about seeds to begin with. With the grey areas your opponent could argue seeds in usable material are OK but seeds separated from the material specifically to produce new plants is something against the law.

 

Has anyone heard of anyone in Michigan being brought up on charges of transferring, selling or any other charges related to only seeds?

 

Separating other violations like patient to patient or other now defined illegal activities, like excessive amounts, has anyone heard of charges being brought up for plants and/or clones being sold or even transferred free between legal caregivers? 

Edited March 16, 2016 by PotGod

[trichcycler]

Only legal dispensaries are allowed to sell clones and seeds to more than their five patients .

A legal caregiver could go to jail for many years doing the same thing.

[trichcycler]

Grassmatch, you'd better qualify your sarcasm on subjects like this.

Sure thing;

 

" :dodgyrun:"

[trichcycler]

 some dispensaries are now labeled legal in Detroit for instance?

Ones in Ann Arbor have been flourishing for years and labeled legal by the city?  they sell clones and seeds legally according to officials?

The dispensaries found to be illegal by the same groups are not allowed to sell clones or seeds anymore?  

[trichcycler]

I follow ops "same for a P2P(patient to patient) sale, CT2P(caretaker to patient)" because that's what I interpret as legal.

I only transfer to my patients, the ones with a card with my name on it. no buds, clones, seeds, cuttings to anyone else.

Edited March 16, 2016 by grassmatch

[trichcycler]

No Way Man! you cant make me either!

 

I know the score, but some of these disp have been up and running for a long time, in the open. what say you of them, the ones allowed to sell medibles, clones, seeds, and bud to anyone with a card? the local leo says its legal, city officials allow them to operate, the prosecutors don't touch them, fans are happy, cops move along. If that isn't an example of legal what is? Their lawlessness has paid off for them. Medibles and clones and seeds for all!!!! Those guys have indeed Freed The Weed breaking ground for the huge lines of patients supporting them daily. ever seen the activity around ann arbor dispensary? holy moly, like california

[Restorium2]

Old Cop Trick; Find someone that operates illegally then wait for your chance to extort them. 

[t-pain]

you're baiting zap on dispensaries but i dont understand why. whats the point grass? we are all in the same reality here. the same hipocracy. the same laws.

[trichcycler]

you're baiting zap on dispensaries but i dont understand why.

really?

 

he baited me. I made a clearly scarcastic remark(maybe not so clear to some though, sorry) and he asked me to quantify it. I did. any further remarks towards that answer are the obvious bait right? I answered the op, and the question posed to me by zap was answered very clearly eh?

 

we all know where to buy seeds. right down the block for most of us? many dispensaries sell them now for years and years and years, lets tell op where he can get started? we openly list dispensaries to every body else, where certain clones and seeds can be bought, an a city sanctioned dispensary to boot.

 

what part in this do you have I wondered?

[Restorium2]

really?

 

he baited me. I made a clearly scarcastic remark(maybe not so clear to some though, sorry) and he asked me to quantify it. I did. any further remarks towards that answer are the obvious bait right? I answered the op, and the question posed to me by zap was answered very clearly eh?

 

we all know where to buy seeds. right down the block for most of us? many dispensaries sell them now for years and years and years, lets tell op where he can get started? we openly list dispensaries to every body else, where certain clones and seeds can be bought, an a city sanctioned dispensary to boot.

 

what part in this do you have I wondered?

You should really quit with that. It's never clear and it's your biggest problem here. Just say it straight. 

[beourbud]

No Way Man! you cant make me either!I know the score, but some of these disp have been up and running for a long time, in the open. what say you of them, the ones allowed to sell medibles, clones, seeds, and bud to anyone with a card? the local leo says its legal, city officials allow them to operate, the prosecutors don't touch them, fans are happy, cops move along. If that isn't an example of legal what is? Their lawlessness has paid off for them. Medibles and clones and seeds for all!!!! Those guys have indeed Freed The Weed breaking ground for the huge lines of patients supporting them daily. ever seen the activity around ann arbor dispensary? holy moly, like california

AA. Screams Corruption.

 

We the People across the State Voted for the Same Law, It should be applied the same way across the State.

It is nothing less than corruption of the law.

 

All of the dispensaries in Ann Arbor and across the State should be promoting and getting signatures. for Abrogate.

 

It's Abrogate or Bust!

[trichcycler]

NO.

But I will say it straight. You are the biggest problem here resto, sorry.

[Restorium2]

NO.

But I will say it straight. You are the biggest problem here resto, sorry.

For you. Yup. I'm sure I am. If it wasn't me it would be someone else doing what I do, keeping things real. We are many and someone is always waiting to take my place. 

[trichcycler]

(maybe I'm the only poster who can see the emoticons perhaps?)

a "dodgy run" implies real sarcasm I thought, and a posters notion of a "dodgy run" from those who do, or don't get it.


oh, lookee here

"Usually used to show sarcasm,.....Of questionable legality, like a scam, or questionable moral or structural integrity.(possibly like a dispensary that sells clones and seeds?) Originally British.

sorry for the misunderstandings. this urbandictionary.com

Edited March 16, 2016 by grassmatch

[Wild Bill]

It looked to me like one of the old California raisin characters.  Even being told it meant dodgy run I still had no idea what that might mean.

 

Remember you're dealing with a lot of old folks here, we don't understand all these new fangled emoticons.

 

[imiubu]

I'm not old and still did not recognize the 'dodgy run' emot as implying sarcasm. 

I thought it was more of a 'frustration' thing.

 

I do know grass and understood his sarcasm...

 

However... not everyone will or does.

[garyfisher]

lets argue about emoticons some more!      

Edited March 16, 2016 by garyfisher

[trichcycler]

I'm not old and still did not recognize the 'dodgy run' emot as implying sarcasm. 

I thought it was more of a 'frustration' thing.

 

I do know grass and understood his sarcasm...

 

However... not everyone will or does.

yup:)

 

somewhere there is an emoticon tutorial? I'm going to drag my cursor over any emoticon from here before I paste it up. When my cursor goes over it the definition is exposed in a pop up. Unclear definitions are inserted here for widely accepted meanings if not already known bfy.tw/QI

 

seriously though, lots of people have lots of different ways of expressing themselves. Its all good I think. Communication skills are all over the map and we adjust, comprehend, or not, some care to and some don't. We tolerate and try to understand our fellow patients, their plights, and their communication skills, or we do not.

I'm glad everyone has a unique personality. good with the bad, whatever, I wouldn't want to change that in any one here.  I love the way some communicate, even if I don't get along with them or do. I can hardly understand the communications of others but may hit it off like old pals.

 

"The evolution of the way we communicate is quickly progressing. We started all the way back at hieroglyphics which evolved after some time to old English (like Shakespeare) which then transformed into modern English which then rapidly turned into "Cnt wait 2 c u l8r 2night," "LOL" and "BRB" and now it has seemed to turn back into the hieroglyphics, which we have come to love so much.

huffingtonpost. com/carly-valentine/the-emoji-takeover_b_5290625.html

[trichcycler]

Is it the same for a P2P(patient to patient) sale, CT2P(caretaker to patient) or CT2CT?

 

I'm pretty sure it's best to consider a clone, rotted or not, to be a plant. I'm not saying this or anything is the law, I'm just stating what is a "safer" way to look at it and notice I did not say "safest". LOL Are seeds considered anything else than a seed?

 

I have numerous other questions and I am sure others do as well and the discussion will probably create more, so I just start here and go from there.

Great place to put your post, great post.

a clone will be a plant most likely. cop makes up those definitions on the spot maybe, stay safest.

 

next question? (=being cute)

[PotGod]

No Way Man! you cant make me either!

 

I know the score, but some of these disp have been up and running for a long time, in the open. what say you of them, the ones allowed to sell medibles, clones, seeds, and bud to anyone with a card? the local leo says its legal, city officials allow them to operate, the prosecutors don't touch them, fans are happy, cops move along. If that isn't an example of legal what is? Their lawlessness has paid off for them. Medibles and clones and seeds for all!!!! Those guys have indeed Freed The Weed breaking ground for the huge lines of patients supporting them daily. ever seen the activity around ann arbor dispensary? holy moly, like California

 

 

My definition of legal would be that you NEVER have to worry about anyone even accusing you of doing anything illegal just like the owner of a Subway shop never has to worry about any local, city, township, county, state or federal group knocking on the door and harassing them without that same business having the ability to sue them for wrongful prosecution if they do. Thinking that "I've/They've gotten away for it so long that it's now legal" is someone just falling victim to that false sense of security that really isn't there.

 

All of the local laws, even our state law really only provides a false sense of security in my mind because the state ruling saying dispensary's are illegal has precedence over the local law so the state can come in at any time if they want to/ The feds can also always come in even if your shop has been in business since the law was implemented. If you don't believe me just talk to any owner of a dispensary in California and ask them how secure they feel. Unless it has been clearly defined in the law or by case law, what anyone else besides the prosecutor and judge thinks is meaningless.

 

You mentioned transfer of stuff patient to patient and I already said that it is obviously not legal so there was no need to discuss but now this has quickly turned into the thread I hoped it wouldn't turn into, with comments completely off topic because of comments made that were off topic or not asked so there goes this conversation and my question of whether anyone has heard of any cases specific to clones and seeds being heard and the results, will probably never get answered.

[trichcycler]

You mentioned transfer of stuff patient to patient and I already said that it is obviously not legal so there was no need to discuss

actually you mentioned it as

 

"What is the legality of selling seeds or clones in MI?

Is it the same for a P2P(patient to patient) sale, CT2P(caretaker to patient) or CT2CT?"

 

 

 

I said I followed the same notion, because that's what I believe is legal. No need to discuss it? then why did you post the info in the first place. man, we on the same page. (I believe it is legal, as in the legal way to conduct your business.  explained it even in the next line, exactly what I want to do. your thread went sideways when

I made a joke, get used to it, sorry it offended you. It was not meant to, only meant to be funny, and it was sarcastically hilarious! 

 

nobody is in trouble for seeds in MI. it has been discussed here. our state law absolutely mentions seeds within it, and their legalities related.

caregiver to caregiver, even with no money transferred is illegal according to our Act, and court opinion of the past. is it right?  nope. I think I agree with your sentiments cool cat.