How To Open A Legal Dispensary !

[Smallbiz]

You guys can say they are illegal or not illegal all you want, but they are needed and liked, that's why their are so many of them. They aren't going anywhere end of story, and I would be careful bashing anything that has to do with selling cannabis. If dispensaries are gone CG are next. Also lumping all dispensaries together is not right, should we lump all CG together, I think not.

[Restorium2]

You guys can say they are illegal or not illegal all you want, but they are needed and liked, that's why their are so many of them. They aren't going anywhere end of story, and I would be careful bashing anything that has to do with selling cannabis. If dispensaries are gone CG are next. Also lumping all dispensaries together is not right, should we lump all CG together, I think not.

Illegal or not isn't the question. It's whether they are campaigning with the legislature to take away our home grow rights.

 

The legislature tells us they are. That's the rub.

[Wild Bill]

 If dispensaries are gone CG are next.

 

The crux of the problem many of us have with dispensaries is that they have been pushing for dispensaries instead of caregivers.

 

Their lobby wants to stop home grows so we are forced to buy from them. That's the part that isn't needed or wanted.

 

Other than that I could give a rat's patoot whether there's a shop on every street corner or not.  I don't want to harm or diminish them in any way, but they are intent on taking away my right to grow my own.

 

Once they started stepping on my toes the game changed.

[+Malamute]

Dispensaries across the country and in Lansing are currently begging to throw patients and caregivers under thebus for their commercial dreams to come true.

 

If you seen and heard what these dispensaries lobbyists offer up, you would feel different about your positions.

 

 It isn't like I even give the holiest of crapss that people sell marijuana,.. heh, I mean seriously; but if you want to protect what you have and expand your rights, commercialization is not the answer unfortunately.  If everyone grows and everyone can trade or gift,... there is no need for licensed commercialization.  The patients haven't spoken, they simply haven't been given proper options.

 

edit add-on: .... and commercialization is pretty far down the list in proper options due to climate, environment, greed, selfishness, and the lack of ability to make it happen.  Dispensaries will not come as an "add -on or improvement"; it will come at a cost,... a cost to the sick, disabled and those who care for them.  Don't forget it.

 

 

The commercial lobby is getting worse as well.  Its ugly.

 

They really don't give a fuk about you, the patient. At all.

 

Sure the random owner here or there are perfectly nice people,... they will also be scraped off the boots of the true commercialists.

 

Many of these people are giving money to the dispensary lobby, thinking they are being represented and not trying to hurt patients; they could not be more mistaken. 

 

 Someday, there wont be people able to stop them anymore. 

 

 I grow tired of protecting our rights.

 

 The Wolves of Fenric will rise eventually.

 

 May our gardens, privacy and protections survive.

 

 

Just from sheer laziness, I transferred posts.

[trichcycler]

The patients haven't spoken, they simply haven't been given proper options.

 

 

Mal,

I sort of agree, and would like to hear any of the ideas you may know of for possible proper options for patients. ones that would keep them from visiting a dispensary.

 

  These patients and club members could be bombarded with hoorah's of the cannabis community, calling for universal support to keep the dispensary in action. They themselves could become spokespersons for the industry, all guided by the big bad wolf.   they might believe that a vote for a dispensary is a vote for freed cannabis.

[beourbud]

You guys can say they are illegal or not illegal all you want, but they are needed and liked, that's why their are so many of them. They aren't going anywhere end of story, and I would be careful bashing anything that has to do with selling cannabis. If dispensaries are gone CG are next. Also lumping all dispensaries together is not right, should we lump all CG together, I think not.

Dispensaries can be lumped together as Illegal and parasitic.

 

If you want to help patients, remove the plant count limits and allow pt to pt transfers.

 

We the People of Michigan did not vote for dispensaries and We Never Will!

 

Take a look at Ohios vote. That is your destiny.

 

Until We Abrogate , Get Off Our Grass!

[Norby]

The crux of the problem many of us have with dispensaries is that they have been pushing for dispensaries instead of caregivers.

 

Their lobby wants to stop home grows so we are forced to buy from them. That's the part that isn't needed or wanted.

 

Other than that I could give a rat's patoot whether there's a shop on every street corner or not.  I don't want to harm or diminish them in any way, but they are intent on taking away my right to grow my own.

 

Once they started stepping on my toes the game changed.

The dispensary lobby is different than the ma and pa dispensaries now operating.  Too bad people didn't get together with the current dispensaries so that we could both fight against this proposal being shoved down our throats.

[Norby]

Dispensaries can be lumped together as Illegal and parasitic.

 

If you want to help patients, remove the plant count limits and allow pt to pt transfers.

 

We the People of Michigan did not vote for dispensaries and We Never Will!

 

Take a look at Ohios vote. That is your destiny.

 

Until We Abrogate , Get Off Our Grass!

Umm that's dispensaries?  How can you have patient to patient legal and NOT have dispensaries, that;'s what dispensaries are.  And I guess all CG can be lumped together too.  Can't have one without the other.

[beourbud]

That's right CG can be lumped together as legal and included in the MMMP

 

Believe it or not you can have pt/pt and still have no dispensaries. However. Disp would be ok if they weren't trying to monopolize the market, test, inspect, lower plant counts and generally try to force growers into a closet.. Screw that!

 

Here is the deal, we don't need dispensaries, they need us.

 

If you want to coexist you better take note.

 

The priority is the patient/caregiver system. If you want to operate/sell recreational. We need to Abrogate First.

 

MiLegal ain't gonna make it and the raids will continue till you run out of cash, or suckers ready to take a fall.

 

So to recap, you're either with us or you're not.

[Alphabob]

Well dispensaries were legit based upon the MMMA… that is until the MSC ruling came in and twisted the language beyond recognition. Some of the claims made by MSC are just as bad as those coming from CoA. Here is just one example,

 

4(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

 

Plain language reading: Any registered person who is at least 21 years old and who has agreed to assist with a patient's medical use of marihuana may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered person who has been diagnosed by a physician as having a debilitating medical condition. Unlike section 4(b) that specifically states “for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana”, section 4(e) allows any registered primary caregiver to provide medical marijuana to any registered patient regardless if they are connected through the registration system. The difference is that section 4(b) also allows for 12 plants and 2.5 ounces per connected patient.

 

What the MSC sees: “§ 4(e) independently describes the relationship between a registered caregiver and his registered qualifying patient and provides an additional protection for the patient-caregiver relationship by emphasizing that it is not a criminal act for a registered qualifying patient to compensate a registered primary caregiver for costs associated with providing marijuana to the patient.”

 

WRONG.

 

The court claims that medical use of marijuana includes the transfer of marijuana and thus the sale. They then contradict themselves by stating section 4(e) provides additional protections to patient-caregiver relationships with respect to compensation/sales, when the definition of medical use already does so. It is a basic rule that if a law can be read in such a way that it becomes redundant, then it should be read in a non-redundant way. MSC failed to do so, just as they failed to provide statutory interpretation in almost every case. In fact, the dissenting opinion directly states such. IMO these individuals need to be debarred asap.

 

How they got to “his” from “a” is a mystery, but there are several examples of this in McQueen alone (how do you interpret something word by word when you change the words?). Regardless, this is the portion of the law that explicitly states a registered caregiver can provide medical marijuana to any registered patient.

 

As to how one could operate a dispensary after this ruling, well you would need something beyond MMMA after MSC screw up. However, it appears that dispensaries in places like Ann Arbor are essentially legal and haven’t been raided since 2013 by DEA. So the easiest solution is to open a dispensary in a city that protects them and is large/powerful enough to fend off MSP. Here’s another idea that I came up with; have each patient bring in a small amount of bud when they go to the dispensary. The patient/customer provides the dispensary with a small amount of bud for the budtenders medical use (and $ donation), while the dispensary simultaneously provides the customer with their requested meds. Problem solved, transaction provides medical benefits both ways .

Edited March 20, 2016 by Alphabob

[beourbud]

The dispensaries in AA are illegal to. " Essentially legal."?..lol that's silly

 

Just because they haven't been raided recently means nothing except the law is unevenly applied and corruption is rampant in this republican controlled state.

 

Just so we are clear though, disp selling under schemes to more than their 5 are illegal.

 

Who would go commercial only to supply to 5? No one.

 

Stop trying to find a loophole to exploit. We the People Voted to Grow our Own or have someone help us with that.

 

Been doing this a long time. You are wasting your time.

 

It's Abrogate or Bust

Edited March 20, 2016 by beourbud

[Norby]

That's right CG can be lumped together as legal and included in the MMMP

 

Believe it or not you can have pt/pt and still have no dispensaries. However. Disp would be ok if they weren't trying to monopolize the market, test, inspect, lower plant counts and generally try to force growers into a closet.. Screw that!

 

Here is the deal, we don't need dispensaries, they need us.

 

If you want to coexist you better take note.

 

The priority is the patient/caregiver system. If you want to operate/sell recreational. We need to Abrogate First.

 

MiLegal ain't gonna make it and the raids will continue till you run out of cash, or suckers ready to take a fall.

 

So to recap, you're either with us or you're not.

Dispensary LOBBY, the people giving money to the lobbyists, are trying to monopolize.  The current ma and pa shops that are getting raided or aren't ARE NOT THE DISPENSARY LOBBY.  The dispensaries that I have gone to wanted the old dispensary law before it was changed, where they got caregivers overages. They don't want the taxes, the armed transport, the extreme laws on medibles, and the large grows, etc. etc.  Why would they, they know the patients only have little cash to spend so why would they want all these other overheads, like they have in NYS?  Because teh same powers that got the grows in NYS are the ones trying to run out all the current dispensaries and caregivers to get it all for themselves.  That's why if the current dispensaries get run out the caregivers are next, just like LEO said about these current bills, we expect to phase out caregivers within the next 3? years.  The only hope is for people to stick together.  So your either with us or not.

[Alphabob]

They may be illegal according to MSC, but Ann Arbor has a licensing board and allows them. Even in some areas that are allowing them however, MSP is still raiding (mostly small towns)... but not Ann Arbor. The central problem is that the law specifically states these transactions are legal and that MSC/CoA are not doing their job. It may not specifically reference dispensaries, but again there is no legal basis for banning them unless you misconstrue the MMMA and basic principles of law. So yes, MSC screwed everything up and now there is precedence for claiming they are illegal.

 

In terms of the ballot, one of the specific provisions was “Permit  registered  individuals  to  grow  limited  amounts  of  marijuana  for  qualifying  patients in an enclosed, locked facility.” That seems pretty clear to me and in no way implies the need for a patient-caregiver relationship via registration system. In fact, plain language reading would imply dispensaries are OK as long as caregivers are within their grow/possession limits (which is exactly how the MMMA reads). Thinking that legalization will solve all of our problems however is a little too optimistic, but it may help.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Alphabob

[beourbud]

First , Dispensaries? Just Say No! They have proven themselves untrustworthy and greedy.

So cut the kumbya ya crap, the disp been all about they money from day one.

 

Next, Vote every republican out this November.

 

Third, Abrogate...Free the Weed

[beourbud]

They may be illegal according to MSC, but Ann Arbor has a licensing board and allows them. Even in some areas that are allowing them however, MSP is still raiding (mostly small towns)... but not Ann Arbor. The central problem is that the law specifically states these transactions are legal and that MSC/CoA are not doing their job. It may not specifically reference dispensaries, but again there is no legal basis for banning them unless you misconstrue the MMMA and basic principles of law. So yes, MSC screwed everything up and now there is precedence for claiming they are illegal.

 

In terms of the ballot, one of the specific provisions was “Permit registered individuals to grow limited amounts of marijuana for qualifying patients in an enclosed, locked facility.” That seems pretty clear to me and in no way implies the need for a patient-caregiver relationship via registration system. In fact, plain language reading would imply dispensaries are OK. Thinking that legalization will solve all of our problems however is a little too optimistic, but it may help.

Those local ordinances don't mean squat in AA, They don't means squat in Gaylord either.

The fact is they are not only illegal, they are criminal enterprises intent on selling to anyone by hook or crook.

Mostly Crook

Edited March 20, 2016 by beourbud

[Norby]

So all dispensaries are selling to nonpatients, selling crack and heroin and are getting out of state product, and what else, I can't quote you for some reason?  You sound like the republicans talking about MJ.  The one I went into today carded me for dropping off a sample, the one in jackson wouldn't sign me up again because they weren't taking on new patients, even though my membership lapsed and technically wasn't "new".

Maybe the ones in teh D are but crack and heroin were there before the MJ shops and it's probably that element that started some of the disps there.  But lumping them all together is the same thing you don't want with bad caregivers or cg acting outside the law.  practice what you preach.

[Alphabob]

Those local ordinances don't mean squat in AA, They don't means squat in Gaylord either.

The fact is they are not only illegal, they are criminal enterprises intent on selling to anyone by hook or crook.

Mostly Crook

 

Well for AA it matters because LEO is either too afraid or have some other reason not to go after them. Perhaps the city has too many resources to fight back. I guess it also depends on how you view legality. For example, you may be doing something legal and get arrested. Another case you may be doing something illegal and not get arrested. IMO it is what actually happens that matters in regards to MMJ and it goes both ways.

 

I don’t disagree that some dispensaries are actually criminal enterprises, but there’s no way you can reasonably claim all of them are (at least beyond calling them a public nuisance via McQueen ruling; one must consider intent). There are individuals out there that want to help patients, and most of these individuals do not run dispensaries but instead give it away for free (which would still be considered illegal under MSC). However, there are also dispensaries that only sell to card holders and provide reasonable prices that are comparable if not better than private caregiver prices; I've been to them, I've seen them reject many people.

 

I myself have had horrible experiences with caregivers. People who claim they know how to grow and don’t even know the difference between a tsp or tbsp, that are sloppy, lazy, inefficient and pour on pesticides/chemicals as if they were water. I know of caregivers who took their patient’s meds and sold them to non-cardholders in order to make a few extra bucks; leaving their patients with nothing for months at a time.

 

Caregivers can be just as crooked as dispensary operators, and when a patient falls into the hands of one of these PoS they can have difficulty finding meds for very long, unacceptable lengths of time. Then as I’ve mentioned with incompetent caregivers, some just cant help but getting their crops wiped out by spider mites every 6 months. There must be alternatives especially for out-of-state patients, and there were until the MSC came along.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Alphabob

[+Malamute]

Dispensaries have NEVER been legal in Michigan. EVER or anywhere. PERIOD.

 

 It had zero to do with any court ruling.  The people that wrote the law, paid for the law and passed the law will tell you without any fidget room, dispensaries or patient to patient transfers were never ever in the law.  They actually ran their campaign on the fact that dispensaries did not exist in t he law. Radio ads galore stating no dispensaries.

 

So, just drop that nonsense.  Half of those people in Gaylord gave financial support to the dispensary LOBBY. The other half still supported them.

 

ALL of them know what they do is not legal. Hell even the low grade attorneys that used to lie to dispensary owners to get large yearly retainers have finally backed off because they know they cannot defend them in court. They will try of course to get them off on technicalities, but they all know what they are doing is not legal. 

 

Inconsistent enforcement has zero to do with being legal.  Some of it has to do with sticking huge sums of money in prosecutors pockets. Some of it has to do with prosecutors who do not care; but none of it has to do with legality.

 

As I said, the authors of the law have always said they are not legal under Michigan law and they were removed from the Michigan laws model language because George Bush was raiding dispensaries like crazy and MPP was worried the Michigan law wouldn't pass because public opinion was so bad on dispensaries at that time.

 

 Those are all just blatant facts.

 

p.s. let me also add that when polling was done in Michigan, if dispensaries were in the law, it dropped the support by 10% of the vote. Polling put medical at around 57 to 58% to pass without dispensaries and 47% if dispensaries would be allowed.  That is why we do not have dispensaries. That is exactly why Bill Schuette in opposition counter campaigned stating that the law would allow dispensaries because it was their best angle to make it not pass.

[Norby]

And yet with all that Shuette propaganda it still passed.  I think the polls may have been wrong.  Either way patients want tehm and I stand behind ALL patients, not just the ones that fit into the way I think.  Some would say because of Shuette ads that dispensaries lie in the spirit of the law.  Isnt there something about helping A patient in some part of the law and all words are supposed to mean something?  It also states that a patient can buy from anywhere and the seller isn't covered, which leaves open that the law cant work without acknowledging a seller.  Its a poorly written law that isn't complete, whether it's the best law in the country or not.  And since a dem pres is in shouldn't the dispensary thing not be an issue?  Or are there more raids in the last 8 years?

[Indigro]

Dispensaries have NEVER been legal in Michigan. EVER or anywhere. PERIOD.

 

It had zero to do with any court ruling. The people that wrote the law, paid for the law and passed the law will tell you without any fidget room, dispensaries or patient to patient transfers were never ever in the law. They actually ran their campaign on the fact that dispensaries did not exist in t he law. Radio ads galore stating no dispensaries.

 

...

 

As I said, the authors of the law have always said they are not legal under Michigan law and they were removed from the Michigan laws model language because George Bush was raiding dispensaries like crazy and MPP was worried the Michigan law wouldn't pass because public opinion was so bad on dispensaries at that time.

.

I have to view it a little differently. The mpp, and all the original people behind the original round of cg/pt models (of which we were really the last round before the newer highly regulated and limited lic commercial models), did take a very pragmatic view when cutting and pasting the varying state bills. BUT, they always had their eye on the prize of legal retail sales... It was always at the front of their monda when drafting. They had/have a long view of the game.

 

With that in mind, they chose their words rather carefully in that where they did not feel confident in openly advocating for retail sales, they left wiggle room within the wording for certain interpretations that could/would eventually lead to retail sales. Case in point is the original language that simply stated 'A cg may assist A patient' in their medical use of mj. In certain climates such wording would hopefully lead to open cg to patient sales, even though there was a cap in place for how many plants a cg could actually grow... But that the overages would be allowed to assist 'A' patient, meaning any patient. That was the intent, imo.

 

The unfortunate thing is how the courts have ruled and regulatory bodies have interpreted things here in mi. Those bodies could have affirmed and expanded patient and cg rights, as opposed to reducing and limiting them. That is how co progressed so quickly... The courts upheld and even expanded patient/ch rights. It didnt hurt anything that they included their original law as a constitutional amendment vs what we have here, but their judges took a much more progressive approach.

 

No where have I seen that it is 'illegal' to operate a dispo in mi, so i dont consider them strictly illegal/forbidden. I just c the one court ruling that said that one model of operating wasnt specificalky protected under the mmj law. That doesnt even mean they are all 'illegal' by law, just very very difficult to be protected anymore... I mean i cant think of a model that would fit all the rulings and restrictions that have been put in place, but maybe someone more inventive has a thought...?

 

But yes, it is much more difficult to concieve of a protected dispo model, but again, they arent specifically stipulated as illegal, to the best of my knowledge... And there certainly was wiggle room with the original language of the law, and i believe that was by design, despite whatever rhetoric was used to sell the bill in the first place.

[trichcycler]

so when dipsensories takeover the cannabis industry and supply chain will we be able to place blame on hooligan patients supporting the lawlessness with every cannabis coin they have?   doesn't seem right to me. patients speak daily with their cash, they want dispensaries, they want the variety, they want the experience. Its a patients world and all should get used to it.  They call the shots, they put forth dollars, they single handedly support EVERY dispensary in the land.

 

 

 

when its all boiled out I'm thinking the law will find a cg can only grow for five people but will be able to supply others also, including out of town qualified patient travelers.  Otherwise be no mention of other states and supplying this group when they visit. Alternatively we could make a traveler wait 15 days before we supply, silliness.

[Restorium2]

so when dipsensories takeover the cannabis industry and supply chain will we be able to place blame on hooligan patients supporting the lawlessness with every cannabis coin they have?   doesn't seem right to me. patients speak daily with their cash, they want dispensaries, they want the variety, they want the experience. Its a patients world and all should get used to it.  They call the shots, they put forth dollars, they single handedly support EVERY dispensary in the land.

 

 

 

when its all boiled out I'm thinking the law will find a cg can only grow for five people but will be able to supply others also, including out of town qualified patient travelers.  Otherwise be no mention of other states and supplying this group when they visit. Alternatively we could make a traveler wait 15 days before we supply, silliness.

Absolutely not. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of our Michigan Legislature that has highjacked so called conservative values to line their pockets with patients' money. 

[t-pain]

more like the crooked legislature who lines the private prisons with innocent people for kickbacks and bribes.

[Restorium2]

more like the crooked legislature who lines the private prisons with innocent people for kickbacks and bribes.

If it wasn't lining their (legislature) pockets they wouldn't be doing it. You just have not found the link ...... yet. 

[zachw]

First , Dispensaries? Just Say No! They have proven themselves untrustworthy and greedy.

So cut the kumbya ya crap, the disp been all about they money from day one.

 

(snip)

 

You obviously had some bad experiences at dispensaries.

 

That is not everyone's experience yet you continue to claim that they are all untrustworthy & greedy (unless you are equating greed with making a profit).

 

Repeating something over again does not make it true.