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Why Are We Such Slow Adopters?


pic book

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A cursory check at gc3 today found that 2 of 39 venders had hydro crop.  I went in assuming that since in the last 3 cannabis cups, half of the winners in indica (and half of the entries), were hydro grown, it would be true of the (generally well-accomplished growers) offerings found at g3c. Not so.  Not at all. How to explain this?

Edited by pic book
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We patients are getting smarter every day. We know hydro is awesome for croppers feeding photos and dispensaries,  and we know connoisseurs and ill patients demand the best experiences, which come from a soil grown organically fed cannabis plant, always has, always will.   I loved hydro and so did my patients, but earth grown is tops! 

 

Hydro for growing

Soil for using.

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I personally cannot tell the difference.

That being said, my sense of taste/ smell is not the best.

As far as efficacy... I cannot discern any difference.

 

I'm still learning this craft and have now moved to "veganics".

I am still struggling but getting better.

Hydro friends are always trying to convert me :)

I just love the smell and feel of the dirt too much to switch.

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Failure. Easier to fail at hydro. Beginners have an easier time with growing in dirt. It's more forgiving.

 

I grow a lot of ways, hydro, aero, soil, indoors, outdoors. 

 

One thing for certain; If someone speaks/posts about any of these major ways to grow as inferior they are describing their own personal failure at that type of growing. If you didn't fail then you wouldn't have anything to complain about, because you can produce equally awesome buds off any of these types of grows. 

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A close friend of mine and a member here at 3ma had major emergency surgery about 4 months ago.

He was the cg.  His wife did not tend the garden prior to this at all.

She is now the cg and has only lost a couple of small clones over this time period.

They are hydro.

Hydro is like having a daily job where you go to work in the morning every single day. The job might be easy but you don't get to take any days off. If a person is the type that can't hold down a job like that then they will fail at hydro. Then they will switch to dirt so they can sleep in and take some days off. Dirt provides some slack for the lazy folks. I like it for that reason too. But when I want to be 'on it' I run aero or hydro, with a few dirt grown plants to sing back up. It's all good. You just have to match the type of growing with your life style and personality, just like any other job.

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That makes sense I guess.  I don't know as I don't do hydro :)

 

What she discovered is that she really enjoys tending the garden each morning.

It provides her with a sense of calm when the rest of her world seemed to be spinning

out of her control.

Gardening is good for the soul... water or dirt... doesn't matter... just get your gardening on :)

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That makes sense I guess.  I don't know as I don't do hydro :)

 

What she discovered is that she really enjoys tending the garden each morning.

It provides her with a sense of calm when the rest of her world seemed to be spinning

out of her control.

Gardening is good for the soul... water or dirt... doesn't matter... just get your gardening on :)

I understand that. If you grow well it gives you a sense of improvement in your life. That's the thing that human's strive for the most, a gradual improvement in their life and future. Growing can provide that stability and feeling of self worth and self improvement. Some try to substitute competition with others for that, that's why they would cut down another's type of growing. Lower the bar for themselves by comparison with others in a negative way. 

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I have been learning to grow cannabis for nearly 2.5 years now and 'growing well' hasn't been achieved thus far.

I have made so many mistakes and had many set backs.  Just this week my ballast caught fire for instance.

I therefore cannot equate 'growing well' as the reason for the sense of improvement in my life.

I was speaking more to the improvement that comes simply from gardening.  How I can loose track of time

in the task.  It is relaxing and stimulating at the same time.  It has brought routine back into my life.

Those are the ways that learning to grow has brought improvement to my life.

 

As far as competition, I feel it is healthy to a point and causes people to strive to do better.

 

Oh boy... we sure derailed this thread  :blink: 

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I have been learning to grow cannabis for nearly 2.5 years now and 'growing well' hasn't been achieved thus far.

I have made so many mistakes and had many set backs.  Just this week my ballast caught fire for instance.

I therefore cannot equate 'growing well' as the reason for the sense of improvement in my life.

I was speaking more to the improvement that comes simply from gardening.  How I can loose track of time

in the task.  It is relaxing and stimulating at the same time.  It has brought routine back into my life.

Those are the ways that learning to grow has brought improvement to my life.

 

As far as competition, I feel it is healthy to a point and causes people to strive to do better.

 

Oh boy... we sure derailed this thread  :blink:

I don't think it ever had a 'rail'. Maybe the third rail?Just a loose cannon from the beginning. The thread was a symptom of a problem generated by those trying to set themselves apart, like an advertisement; 'I'm Mo Better So Pick Me' spammy. If you are comfortable in your own growing you don't need to do that.

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I don't think it ever had a 'rail'. Maybe the third rail?Just a loose cannon from the beginning. The thread was a symptom of a problem generated by those trying to set themselves apart, like an advertisement; 'I'm Mo Better So Pick Me' spammy. If you are comfortable in your own growing you don't need to do that.

 

I have yet to see soil being so much better, I'm with resto,  its a spammy whammy thing... good meds are good , no matter what it grows in... Then again im a hydro man. 

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I was speaking more to the improvement that comes simply from gardening.  How I can loose track of time

in the task.  It is relaxing and stimulating at the same time.  It has brought routine back into my life.

Those are the ways that learning to grow has brought improvement to my life.

 

As far as competition, I feel it is healthy to a point and causes people to strive to do better.

 

Oh boy... we sure derailed this thread  :blink:

scary stuff, that ballast...glad you came out alright(assuming?) with charred nerves I bet?

 

 

I hear you on this level. Its all about the experience. I had a great experience with hydro for years. I loved it big time. It was expensive for sure. The hydro nutrients are costly, and so are failures.

At the time I loved the "lab like" appearance of the whole show. The whirring of the pumps and compressor and air bubblers, meters dangling, shelf with tools and fittings and stuff. It was a blast and produced great product consistently. I started to gear towards organic styles and was interested in taking my hydro to a new level. Some patients were showing interest in organically fed medicine as opposed to bottled hydro nutrients. I tried ALL of the supposed organic hydro nutrients on the shelf and they did fail, all except Iguana line. But it wasn't perfect either. I followed directions and also fed a bucket of dirt next to the hydro with the same Iguana, and it responded better than the hydro. Interest piqued I planted more dirt buckets indoors(in my house grow tents) and used different fertilizers. The first was the best I found to be Organicare. These dirt buckets blew my mind, same tent as the awesome hydro plants, but they were just better to me, whatever that means. I couldn't tell the diff honestly, in the final product. But growing these was a different experience for me, and I built a outdoor building dedicated to soil, while I was transitioning my hydro out.

I found the soil experience, not just the end results but the whole thing, to be more satisfying to me. The majority of patients who match my criteria are asking for organic fed meds anyways, and I like the dry floors now too. Maybe I was a bad plumber, leaks turned me off, maybe add that to some of the normal hydro issues, like no vacations, strange ph grow rocks, etc....my soil garden is the answer for me, all around, from seed to harvest, it serves me better.

 

My soil garden requires more physical labor than my hydro did. My soil plants need little to no support. Flushing is for the birds here. Technically I still grow hydroponically, in hybrid octopots. Some are with soil/ organic feed and billions of microbeasties while some happy roots lap up the salts in the res below. no bubbles, no floods.

 

I don't really thing one style is greater than another, except on a personal level. Not laziness at all, maybe disabilities, vacation family time, things like that help make decisions for some. I don't know any lazy cannabis growers=oxymoron maybe.

 

Namaste

 

for op, I was gently adding one plausible supply and demand situation example, like if buyers wanted hydro grown only the market should reflect that.

another reason maybe is water quality. I cant imagine trying to ph the city water there, and soil is ph forgiving. Some really nasty water can be used to grow in soil, even radiated soil will allow cannabis to thrive, but not in hydro using the same water perhaps.

Edited by grassmatch
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I personally cannot tell the difference.

I just love the smell and feel of the dirt too much to switch.

this is a nugget of truth.  personal preference.

and of 10 venders at random, 8 of them had grown some garden with their parents (veggies, mostly) before turning 18!!!

and not in hydro.

they are still in soil.

Edited by pic book
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you take the word of less than 20 judges who have to basically chainsmoke marijuana and then give reviews of that bud?

 

or you take the word of the growers who (are sponsored with free hydro gear) to report accurately what they use to grow the bud?

 

too many variables to consider accuracy for me.

 

hey if you think its accurate just say "everyone in the cannabis community is honest and trustworthy, including the hydro, grow and lighting businesses" ...

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http://www.organicproducermag.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_id=112

 

http://ucanr.edu/datastoreFiles/234-2398.pdf

 

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/15/1/4.pdf

 

file:///C:/Users/Aaron/AppData/Local/Temp/molecules-17-02378-v2.pdf

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24968103

 

 

Organic food and flowers do have more flavor and have higher medicinal concentrations.  Whether you like, can taste or need more flavor and the medicinal value reported with them is a personal choice. Some terpenes just make more THC available faster, if you don't need that, then thats great. But for people who do, organic meds will do better for them.  Although organic grown may not be more "nutritious(vitamins and minerals)", they are healthier as has been proven with these and the more papers that are coming out on it every year and by testing with the same type machines used for MJ testing.  They do have more flavonoids, antioxidents, etc. etc.  Now someone who grows bad organics and overdoes it with magnesium and phosphorous and the like can produce meds that are crappier than well grown hydro but that doesn't mean each are equal if done equally well. It just means that you can achieve a higher plateau with organics than you can with synthetic alternative methods.  People who need a recipe to follow(tsp/gal. water and no soil mixing) to be successful might be better off with liquid synthetic nutes or liquid organics.  Although organic is more forgiving with the flavor profile from what I've found. 

 

It seems to me that, since we are growing meds, we should look at the med levels in the food we eat rather than the vit and min content.  And since the falvonoids, antioxident and polyphenol levels were increased in all the vegetables grown organically, maybe there is something to it.

 

And considering the High Times article I posted had 80% of the cannabis cup winners being grown organically(or veganically) and they just get #'s to rate, not how they were grown, I'd think that says a lot.

Edited by Norby
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Some plants-aquatic- naturally grow in nutritious water and some don't. Like pond growth and even house plants that easily root in a cup of water on a window sill. My cannabis wont do that. With lab like measurements and perfect parameters most are able to be forced to grow this way. Its fun, hydro is a blast!   They thrive with special nutrients,sugars, vitamins and minerals, the same fertilizers used in commercial farming. Non organic vegetables are fed with the same solutions.

 

The first difference I noticed was a sturdier plant in soil, not necessarily the obvious weighted block of root bound soil holding it still, but individual branches were stronger, less breakage. The next was the expressions, colors, smells, tastes, flavors were more complex in my organically fed plants, grow in soil. I figure its the fact that these are foraging for their foods, listening to the vibrations/communications of the miles of fungi in their substrate, slurping up the natural insect frass available to them, and really working to convert these raw fungi digested  bits of rotting composted organic materials.  Like comparing person on a hospital I.V. fed with every single nutrition and vitamin he needs all the carbs and water his body needs to be super healthy, to the one that runs and jumps while hunting for his nutrition, some times experiencing times of stress , like all living things, times without bountiful gluttonous food baths. The organic plant has all kinds of systems working just like outdoors to support the plant below the ground. She is stronger and thrives differently than the one that does not. I probably could not tell the difference between well grow organic and well grown hydro, but being there through her entire life gives me special privy and I know she is happier in her dirt, with her chicken pooh. And during the growth the smells are stronger, the electricity is in the air, and the drying experience is different too. The taste is finer, and more complex, barely noticeable to many surely. Hydro production is more expensive than organic I find and lowered my patient costs when I switched.

when its Rx medicine you can bet it will be grown in hydro for the total control.

 

now heres something to consider...

 

salts with octos and dirt with octos, and octos with both, dirt, and salts in the res, grown  next to dirt, and they both rock, but the one with both available is the star, no matter, AN, DM, GH, so far.....they all perform well with the organics.  best of both worlds, without the leaks!

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you take the word of less than 20 judges who have to basically chainsmoke marijuana and then give reviews of that bud?

 

or you take the word of the growers who (are sponsored with free hydro gear) to report accurately what they use to grow the bud?

 

too many variables to consider accuracy for me.

 

hey if you think its accurate just say "everyone in the cannabis community is honest and trustworthy, including the hydro, grow and lighting businesses" ...

My initial take as well. We have been trained to believe that 'organic' is 'better', and it is a catch word for selling, as patients even ask for that now, believing that organic is better, healthier, or what have you. So... Now people just say its 'organic'... But is it really? Or is it just conveniently suggested for the sale, or the rep? What is 'organic' anyway? There isnt really a clear definition even within out market. People use sulfer burners w dirt pots and processed fish juice... Is that organic? They say it is, and pass it on as such.

 

Anyway, i wouldnt put much stock in whatever cup contestants or dispo wholesalers or dispo owners say.

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Hydro is like having a daily job where you go to work in the morning every single day. The job might be easy but you don't get to take any days off. If a person is the type that can't hold down a job like that then they will fail at hydro. Then they will switch to dirt so they can sleep in and take some days off. Dirt provides some slack for the lazy folks. I like it for that reason too. But when I want to be 'on it' I run aero or hydro, with a few dirt grown plants to sing back up. It's all good. You just have to match the type of growing with your life style and personality, just like any other job.

Excellent description. Each method stresses different work types and loads... A lot of success depends on what/which we prefer, and consequently do best with.

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We should break down commercially sold hydroponic nutrients to see exactly what this unregulated industry puts into them. I think we'll find friendly competition has allowed all kinds of strange chems into our nutrient supply. Any person in their garage can mix up supply and sell it at a store, without any testing or label mandates. Its chemical competition at play. Same goes for commercial "organic" nutrients often.  The salts themselves are not an issue, but the other components may be?  Wouldn't be the first time hydro stores sold bloom boosters, growth regulators and more all hidden away in Giant Bud masked labels. 

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We should break down commercially sold hydroponic nutrients to see exactly what this unregulated industry puts into them. I think we'll find friendly competition has allowed all kinds of strange chems into our nutrient supply. Any person in their garage can mix up supply and sell it at a store, without any testing or label mandates. Its chemical competition at play. Same goes for commercial "organic" nutrients often.  The salts themselves are not an issue, but the other components may be?  Wouldn't be the first time hydro stores sold bloom boosters, growth regulators and more all hidden away in Giant Bud masked labels. 

NASA uses GH Nutes to grow food. Food for people. You know, that NASA that is working on putting people on Mars? Not all nutes sold at the shops are equal. At least if you use the one that NASA uses then you will have consistency and you know it's not some bathtub nutes, (if that's even a true thang). I think some folks get a little carried away with their ideas on nutes being bad. So if you are worried or wondering, go with NASA and relax. GH nutes are food grade and have a good reference with NASA.

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We should trust NASA... our gov't ?

 

They may be worse/ same as Monsanto?

 

Just cuz they use it to feed people doesn't

necessarily deem it 'safe'.

 

Just sayin'

 

If peeps are worried then use all organic plant

based fertilizers from LOCAL sources to have

less chance of using 'bad' nutes.

 

jm02

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We should trust NASA... our gov't ?

 

They may be worse/ same as Monsanto?

 

Just cuz they use it to feed people doesn't

necessarily deem it 'safe'.

 

Just sayin'

 

If peeps are worried then use all organic plant

based fertilizers from LOCAL sources to have

less chance of using 'bad' nutes.

 

jm02

You can be scared of everything or use your time to educate yourself on what your risks are, empower yourself. The key is to minimize your risks the best you can with the knowledge you can get from all of your sources. 

Anything you buy, local or otherwise, has a risk of not being what is advertised. If you can find a reference to a certain food grade item that is being used by a very rich company who spares no expense on what it uses, NASA, and just buys the best for the quality of the end product they are using, then you have a better reference than something that has none and you are trusting some smiling saleman's word.

I'll take the NASA reference over that of the common jerk down at the elevator. He could have personally crapped in your nutes and you would have no idea. 

The best advice is to buy your nutes from a source that you trust not to adulterate it and also look at the factory seal on the bottle. That's the safest you are going to get. 

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