Jump to content

Cloud 45. Gaylord Raided......again


beourbud

Recommended Posts

http://www.9and10news.com/story/31765583/developing-otsego-county-medical-marijuana-dispensary-raided

 

If the MMMA works to keep folk from going to jail maybe discouraging dispensaries , concentrates and medibles should be a priority.

 

Top on a Garden, not so much!

 

Free the Weed, Cage the Greed.

Edited by beourbud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.9and10news.com/story/31765583/developing-otsego-county-medical-marijuana-dispensary-raided

 

If the MMMA works to keep folk from going to jail maybe discouraging dispensaries , concentrates and medibles should be a priority.

 

Top on a Garden, not so much!

 

Free the Weed, cage the greedy.

Concentrates and medibles are preparations there of, are covered under the act. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a bit of a problem arguing that edibles are a "preparation thereof." "Thereof" means "of the items mentioned." The items mentioned are only leaves and flowers. So a mixture of leaves, flowers, butter, sugar, salt and flour isn't a "preparation thereof". It's a preparation thereof plus a few other things.

 

On the other hand, BHO, hash, etc. (products made only made from extracts of leaves and flowers) are certainly a preparation thereof.

 

I'm a pretty firm believer that extracts of leaves and flowers are (or should be) legal regardless if there are leaf or flower remnants present. And a patient who has no dried leaves or flowers should be able to have 2.5 oz. of an oil extract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a bit of a problem arguing that edibles are a "preparation thereof." "Thereof" means "of the items mentioned." The items mentioned are only leaves and flowers. So a mixture of leaves, flowers, butter, sugar, salt and flour isn't a "preparation thereof". It's a preparation thereof plus a few other things.

 

On the other hand, BHO, hash, etc. (products made only made from extracts of leaves and flowers) are certainly a preparation thereof.

 

I'm a pretty firm believer that extracts of leaves and flowers are (or should be) legal regardless if there are leaf or flower remnants present. And a patient who has no dried leaves or flowers should be able to have 2.5 oz. of an oil extract.

you are ignoring the word "any" as in any preparation or mixture of dried leaves or dried flowers

 

(k) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"A lieutenant with SANE says they had information that made them believe Cloud 45 was involved with edibles and illegally dispensing."

 

Haven't seen a dispensary yet following the law. Looks like edibles are a problem for cloud 45

 

Funny these same criminals are trying to discourage a top on a garden......lol

 

Dispensaries are a cancer on the MMMP. They continue to promote illegal activity which makes the program look bad.

 

The cannabis cup and hi times are also the wrong image for a program for the sick.

 

The dispensary models are based on recreational use and profit over people and are Not the model We the People voted for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edibles are a mixture.

 

Yes.  Edibles are a mixture.  But are they a "mixture thereof?"  I don't think so.  I've looked at quite a few common dictionary definitions of what "thereof" means.  They are all on the same page  that "thereof" means "of the things mentioned." more or less.

 

(k) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

 

A MMJ brownie, a mixture of leaves and/or flowers and flour and sugar isn't a "mixture thereof" because flour and sugar aren't in the list of "those things mentioned."

 

So a brownie can't possibly be a "mixture thereof."  But probably a preparation thereof.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are ignoring the word "any" as in any preparation or mixture of dried leaves or dried flowers

 

(k) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

 

I'm not ignoring anything.  Not ignoring things is what leads us into this discussion.  I'm not ignoring that every dictionary definition I've seen for "thereof" means "of the items mentioned."  The items mentioned are dried leaves and flowers.  There is no mention of other ingredients.  This leads me to believe that the courts will rule that a mixture of anything that includes anything other than dried leaves and flowers isn't simply a mixture of leaves and flowers.  This conclusion is supported by a plain reading of the act. 

 

So forget mixtures for now.  If you have a mixture of leaves and/or flowers and flour and sugar, this isn't a "mixture thereof" as defined by the act.  It is a mixture of dried leaves and flowers and other stuff.

 

Is it a "preparation thereof?"  Absolutely. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are misapplying thereof; it’s in reference to one of the ingredients in a mixture or preparation, not an exclusivity. For example, if I make a preparation of cannabutter (i.e. a mixture of cannabis flower and butter), I would be in accordance with the law as long as the final product is less than 2.5 ounces.

 

If I try taking some cannabutter and make brownies out of it, I am not covered by section 4. A mixture or preparation has been created with something other than flower or leaves, in this case cannabutter. This is how the courts have ruled with respect to 'thereof' and it makes sense when you analyze what a mixture or preparation is. In fact, mixtures are by definition preparations.

 

If I say I’m going to prepare some steak, does that mean I cant use any seasoning or other ingredients? No, because the final product is a preparation of steak even with the seasoning. If I extracted all the proteins from a steak and make a preparation with it, is it still a preparation of steak? According to the courts it’s not.

Edited by Alphabob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the MMMA and CoA:

 

Legal under section 4: Flower, leaves, BHO, Rosin, edibles made directly from flower/leaves, ect.
Not covered by section 4: Edibles made from something other than directly from flowers/leaves.

 

According to PAAM, MSP and lab policies:

 

Legal under section 4 (on occasion): Flower and leaves
Illegal: Everything else

 

* Anything covered by section 4 is 'usable marijuana'.

 

Just pretend like its all illegal and you should be fine...

 

See reference below:

"On July 11, 2013, the Michigan Court of Appeals issued an opinion in People v. Carruthers.  In that opinion the court held that edibles (in this case brownies) made from marijuana resin do not count as “usable marijuana” as defined under the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act.  Edibles made with resin will, however, constitute marijuana as contained in section 4 of the MMMA.  The end result of this analysis is that your edibles made from resin will count as marijuana, but will not count as usable marijuana for purposes of a §4 defense under MCL 333.2642 et. seq.  Therefore, if you have edibles made from marijuana resin you will be outside the purview of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act and will be subject to prosecution on those edibles made from marijuana resin...

 

The court noted that under the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act edibles could be made to comply with “usable marijuana” requirements contained in the statute and therefore, would be entitled to section 4 protections.  The court stated “our interpretation also does not preclude the medical use of marijuana by ingestion of edible; to the contrary, such use is authorized by the MMMA, within the statutory limitations, provided that the edible is a “mixture or preparation” of “the dried leaves and flowers marijuana plant,” rather than of the more potent THC that is extracted from marijuana resin."

 

http://www.hillslawoffice.com/blog/215/people-v-carruthers/

Edited by Alphabob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meaning number three seems pertinent to this discussion.

 

prep·a·ra·tion

ˌprepəˈrāSH(ə)n/

noun

 

1) The action or process of making ready or being made ready for use or consideration.

"the preparation of a draft contract"

synonyms: devising, putting together, drawing up, construction, composition, production, getting ready, development More

 

2) Something done to get ready for an event or undertaking.

plural noun: preparations

"she continued her preparations for the party"

synonyms: arrangements, planning, plans, preparatory measures

"preparations for the party"

 

3) A substance that is specially made up and usually sold, especially a medicine or food.

synonyms: mixture, compound, concoction, solution, tincture, medicine, potion, cream, ointment, lotion

"a preparation to kill off mites"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(k) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

 

 

Just cuz I am bored.

 

"dried leaves and flowers", and any mixture of only the dried leaves and flowers, or preparation of any mixture."

 

This combines wild bills issue with thereof stating "thereof" isn't retreating into the sentence as far and applies to "any mixture".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Low hangin fruit as usual..they need to leave everyone alone, even disps.... 

 

 

Thanks i agree

 

He did tell everyone two days before this raid that Leo had been over to count his plants and they told him he was good to go lots of people think Leo is their friend they open their doors for them all the time and post on FaceBook that their Legal 

 

If they would just go to court support one time i think they could learn Growing Cannabis may or may not be Legal the Law as turned into a Zip code Law 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.9and10news.com/story/31765583/developing-otsego-county-medical-marijuana-dispensary-raided

 

If the MMMA works to keep folk from going to jail maybe discouraging dispensaries , concentrates and medibles should be a priority.

 

Top on a Garden, not so much!

 

Free the Weed, Cage the Greed.

It is still the same!  Despensarry's are ilegal and so is growing out doors w/o a top side!

 

They are both ilegal, I will continue to say the same thing as I have been,

 

Does it mean I totaly follow the law?  NO    Do I tell people what the law is?  Yes

 

I may not like the law, and I may not follow the law, If I get caught That will be my problem, You wont see me opening up a go fund me acct or ask for any ones support at court, If or when I get caught breaking the law, I will take my punishment and not drag every one down with me, When I make something I make it for me,  when I get caugthe making something I will pay the price!

 

Good try though, You are as hard headed as I am!

 

Peace

 

p.s I would love to open a go fund me acct just to dig myself out of debt's I have gathered over the last 7 yrs though,,,,would that work?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, then a brownie isnt usable. so its just marihuana. which means no limit under sec4.

 

unless you want to count it as a plant?

 

I believe a brownie is usable MJ.  It is a preparation of leaves and flowers.

 

It sorta compares to alka-seltzer.  An alka-seltzer tablet is just a tablet.  Dissolve it in water, and you have a medicine that is a preparation of alka-seltzer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are misapplying thereof; it’s in reference to one of the ingredients in a mixture or preparation, not an exclusivity. For example, if I make a preparation of cannabutter (i.e. a mixture of cannabis flower and butter), I would be in accordance with the law as long as the final product is less than 2.5 ounces.

 

If I try taking some cannabutter and make brownies out of it, I am not covered by section 4. A mixture or preparation has been created with something other than flower or leaves, in this case cannabutter. This is how the courts have ruled with respect to 'thereof' and it makes sense when you analyze what a mixture or preparation is. In fact, mixtures are by definition preparations.

 

If I say I’m going to prepare some steak, does that mean I cant use any seasoning or other ingredients? No, because the final product is a preparation of steak even with the seasoning. If I extracted all the proteins from a steak and make a preparation with it, is it still a preparation of steak? According to the courts it’s not.

 

I don't believe so.  The dictionary definitions I have look at all say "thereof" means (more or less) "of the things mentioned."  I agree that your cannbutter would be in accordance with the law, but not as a "mixture thereof" but as a "preparation thereof."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That cannot be, as then a mixture thereof and a preparation thereof would be the same.

 

I think you may have misplaced your thereof.

 

I don't believe so.

 

A mixture thereof would be a mixture of the things mentioned - dried leaves and flowers. (nothing else is mentioned).

 

A preparation thereof would be something prepared using the the things mentioned. 

 

I know this is splitting hairs, and if I'm right it makes no difference in a practical way.

 

But what I think is important about this is that a mixture seems to imply that the items are just, well, mixed.  They aren't altered in any way.  A preparation seems to imply that the items mentioned (leaves and flowers) are processed in some way such that they are altered and are not used as medicine in their original form.  For example, oil extracted from leaves or flowers is a preparation of the leaves and flowers.

 

I think the point of the law using both "mixture" and "preparation" shows that the intent was for patients to be able to use MM in its natural and altered forms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well scientifically speaking a mixture contains two or more substances that are not chemically combined; so a bag containing a mixture of flower and leaves would work. A preparation includes mixtures and can either be chemically combined or not.

 

Realistically they could have used ‘any preparation’ rather than both words. Through statutory interpretation one could interpret ‘mixture’ as meaning something beyond that of a standard preparation, i.e. as a mixture of just the leaves and flower. However, the inclusion of preparation makes this irrelevant, and using both words only reinforces that preparations are not exclusive to only the flower and leaves (in terms of other ingredients, not other forms of MJ). Otherwise simply smoking through a bowl and creating resin would be illegal, especially if you later plan to use that resin.

 

The exception is that you cant make a preparation of flowers and leaves, and then use that to make another preparation. It has to all be in one step. But really, how would you make brownies in 1 step? You have to add the flower/leaves to the butter at some point, which will be separate from the brownie mix. If the only difference is straining the butter afterwards, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. So I am curious as how CoA sees it as possible to make brownies legally. Simply having flower/leaves in the brownies does not prove that multiple preparations were avoided. You could have cannabutter with flower/leaves in it.

Edited by Alphabob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes.  Edibles are a mixture.  But are they a "mixture thereof?"  I don't think so.  I've looked at quite a few common dictionary definitions of what "thereof" means.  They are all on the same page  that "thereof" means "of the things mentioned." more or less.

 

(k) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

 

A MMJ brownie, a mixture of leaves and/or flowers and flour and sugar isn't a "mixture thereof" because flour and sugar aren't in the list of "those things mentioned."

 

So a brownie can't possibly be a "mixture thereof."  But probably a preparation thereof.

You should read what you wrote. Total nonsense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...