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Milegalize + Petitioners = Getting On The 2016 Michigan Ballot


jamieuke

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Where do the uneaten pies end up in a system based on profit? Can the same happen with cannabis?

They will throw them in the garbage rather than share for less profit. I have heard of wonderful finds in dumpster diving. I had a friend give me a complete set of collector plates with stands, from a jewelry store at the end of the run... trash before cash...

Not so sure how that comes into play to the question but its my thoughts on it..

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gleaners and forgotten harvest take old pies for the needy/poor/homeless and feed them.

 

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20140209/NEWS/302099969/charity-food-providers-adapt-overlap-to-meet-local-demand

 

if theres a will, theres a way.

 

For example, manufacturers and stores pulled boxes of cereal with former Olympian Michael Phelps' picture on them after he was caught smoking a bong, Brisson said.

lol sigh

 

they probably also pulled tiger woods boxes...

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No no no no.

In this city henry ford had much more than his workers in the factories. Yet the standard of living rose in Detroit, and even assembly line folks could buy cars.

What you describe is a zero sum game, and casinos fit what you describe since, if the house gets more, the player(s) [fools who take a risk when the odds favor the house] end up with less. True also of commodity futures, but not true in stocks.

Your blanket statement holds truth only in certain situations, and not in the bulk of situations.

Your statement is true of government budgeting, due to tax collections being finite, and when a dollar is spent on roads that's a dollar less available to be spent on education. Anytime a single pie must be divided up, you are correct. You are not correct when endeavors result in multiple pies. :horse:

At the times of a rising american middle class, there were much tighter differences between what the top brass earned vs the bottom level employees... Which is in and of itself kind of effed up to say, because at that time the differences between the richest and poorest was still pretty bad, but at least there was still enough of an equitable split that middle class americans could emerge. That really didnt even happen until we had organized labor, and we all know that what ford thought of that... Beat them down, literally beat them w fists and bats until they broke. They disnt break, and from that period we saw a middle class expand.

 

Now the differencea between the rich and the poor is at the highest level of difference than at any point in american history, or if i recall correctly, at any point in modern history, certainly amongst 'western, developed' nations. We have broken down labor movements, and the middle class is disappearing. Civil rights are being dismantled, the tax base dessimated, and social safety nets along w it. Many people are un- to under-employed, and the bottom 2/3rds of americans have no upward mobility, while the uber rich become even more so. Those r the facts.

 

You have to look at the entire world as a single pie, because the reaources we have are indeed finite. A model based on the assumptions of continually growing markets, sales and consumption is is totally false, broken... Disconnected w the reality. There only is so much in resources, and amassing all of the control of those resources within the hands of a select few nec means that the rest of the people have less. Dont believe the noise politicians spew out, they represent the chosen few, and work to protect and expand their wealth... At the expense of everyone else. Dont buy into the greed is good bs, or at least recognize it for what it is... Perversely selfish. Places one in the sociopathic category of existence.

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I would love to be able to provide high quality cannabis to the masses for $5 A gram or less... is that so wrong?

 

Don't forget, TAX AND REGULATE, TAX AND REGULATE!

If you want to sell it for $5 a gram you'd better be able to grow it for 75 cents a gram.

 

The government gets the rest.

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To be sure, I did sign at the a2 art fair. But yes I would not sign one in a grow shop cause as said, if you are in a grow store chances are you have a grow. If in a cert center chances are you are a patient and have at the very least meds at home if not a grow. Same with the testing lab.

 

Paranoid? Maybe but I've never been robbed either. Well except by Lawnet...

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Sign the petition wherever it is comfortable - contact me or the campaign directly at www.MILegalize.com for petition sheets to volunteer or to get paid for gathering sigs for the next 2-3 weeks.

 

The tax -described in the proposal- is only for adults 21 and over who are not cannabis using medical patients -purchasing commercially. The excise tax could be lower, but is capped at 10% and the proceeds are directed to roads, schools and back to the community allowing the businesses.

 

This is a very real opportunity and the only opportunity to significantly improve conditions and to effect change in Michigan this year.

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tax and regulate non medical marijuana, wild bill.

 

medical marijuana never taxed.

 

please dont get milegalize confused with that bunny muffin HB 4209/4210...

 

Not confused, mibrains said he wanted to make a million by selling $5 grams. We know he won't make a million with medical.

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The Intolerable Acts were the American Patriots' term for a series of punitive laws passed by the British Parliament in 1774 after the Boston Tea party. They were meant to punish the Massachusetts colonists for their defiance in throwing a large tea shipment into Boston harbor. In Great Britain, these laws were referred to as the Coercive Acts.

The acts took away Massachusetts' self-government and historic rights, triggering outrage and resistance in the Thirteen Colonies. They were key developments in the outbreak of the American Revolution in 1775.

 

This one ?

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The Intolerable Acts were the American Patriots' term for a series of punitive laws passed by the British Parliament in 1774 after the Boston Tea party. They were meant to punish the Massachusetts colonists for their defiance in throwing a large tea shipment into Boston harbor. In Great Britain, these laws were referred to as the Coercive Acts.

The acts took away Massachusetts' self-government and historic rights, triggering outrage and resistance in the Thirteen Colonies. They were key developments in the outbreak of the American Revolution in 1775.

 

This one ?

And here we are again...

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But if we still think of the idea of true representation (from the perspective of the common american that is far from rich), then the problem still exists.

 

And if we think of it from the perspective of monopolies interfering w the rise of competing businesses (monopolies backed by the gov't), the the problem still exists.

 

Anyone for a revolution?

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Here's the thing (and im really not that far away from where u r imo)...

 

U cant do the decent, considerate and even fair thing... And be 'successful' when measuring that success w a dollar yard stick, esp if u want that yardstick to measure out in the millions. For any one of us to have more, others have to have less. Thats the bottom line to american capitalism.

 

there are alternative models, alternative value systems... But weed is being overrun by the standard american model. i can complain a long diatribe here but let me just say that u r using competing, almost mutually exclusive, value systems in what u want. There is something wrong w wanting to be a millionaire... It means many others to be at the poverty line.

That's kind of an oversimplification.  I know families making in the millions selling good organic food at a fair price.  The problem with american capitalism is that the corporations who supply most of the jobs don't pay well and most of the production jobs have been shipped to where they work for $5 a day and grow their own food and middle men make too much.  You can certainly provide a good product at a good price to end supply consumers locally, grow your own food and live frugally and retire a millionaire. That's an extreme view of a complex problem.  I made good money selling pets to people and they didn't need the pets and were no "poorer" because of buying my pets. I produced them and sold most to the end consumer.   And considering, just like a lot of your food in that you can grow for yourself it's not like your selling gas for cars and there isn't any competition for transportation fuel(electric is starting).  Not like many people can produce their own biodiesel.  Mj is different.

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So none would improve on teh MMMA as it's currently working for you and you didn't want to stand by anyone else? Are you talking about the medibles and dispensary bill?  Cause these are for legalization so that the people who voted for the MMMA could also have a way to not get arrested.

I did not sign either mmj petition t.  I do not support them.  I do not think that either will improve upon the MMMA.

If I am speaking out of place as a mod, then I will stop being a mod before I will stifle my opinions.

Idk about eating paint chips and what not but some folks could improve upon their reading comprehension and stop

twisting up other peoples words to fit their own agenda.

 

Right.

 

Exactly.  I "like" posts for a variety of reasons and it doesn't always mean that I agree. 

 

 

 

 

 

Some folks might think about putting themselves in check before they try to control others, sigh.

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At the times of a rising american middle class, there were much tighter differences between what the top brass earned vs the bottom level employees... Which is in and of itself kind of effed up to say, because at that time the differences between the richest and poorest was still pretty bad, but at least there was still enough of an equitable split that middle class americans could emerge. That really didnt even happen until we had organized labor, and we all know that what ford thought of that... Beat them down, literally beat them w fists and bats until they broke. They disnt break, and from that period we saw a middle class expand.

 

Now the differencea between the rich and the poor is at the highest level of difference than at any point in american history, or if i recall correctly, at any point in modern history, certainly amongst 'western, developed' nations. We have broken down labor movements, and the middle class is disappearing. Civil rights are being dismantled, the tax base dessimated, and social safety nets along w it. Many people are un- to under-employed, and the bottom 2/3rds of americans have no upward mobility, while the uber rich become even more so. Those r the facts.

 

You have to look at the entire world as a single pie, because the reaources we have are indeed finite. A model based on the assumptions of continually growing markets, sales and consumption is is totally false, broken... Disconnected w the reality. There only is so much in resources, and amassing all of the control of those resources within the hands of a select few nec means that the rest of the people have less. Dont believe the noise politicians spew out, they represent the chosen few, and work to protect and expand their wealth... At the expense of everyone else. Dont buy into the greed is good bs, or at least recognize it for what it is... Perversely selfish. Places one in the sociopathic category of existence.

Not really, things are recycled, money circulates.   Food is dependant on weather and other conditions each year and depending on how much lawn we have adn how many mushrooms come up in the forest and how many wood chipes and straw I turn into mushrooms and sell.  Money is like blood in the body and we are all the cells.  When any one sector of society gets too much blood and cuts flow to the others then you have problems but the circulatory system can be enlarged and more blood can be brought in.  Right now we are bleeding like a stuck pig since we have our labor spread out all over the world and we are competing for what little is flowing thru the body.  We can stop those leaks and build back up the supply and flow throughout the body.  Not everyone can be millionaires but everyone can be comfortable and a more slight stratification and those who work harder can make more(like it used to be in the 80's90's when you could get 2 full time jobs).  I know I don't understand completely or I'd be a lot richer, well not really because I work for myself I don't invest as I have always seen that as making money off of other working folks in a sense but you get the idea.

 

I agree that a lot of things are fuked up and exponential growth always ends in a quick downward drop, but I don't think it's irreversible or that finite and much more complex.

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Okay, I had a long conversation with myself about signing the petitions over the weekend.

I've decided that I will sign both.

My reason to do so is because of this:

 

 

I generally sign every petition presented to me whether I support it or not.

Every idea deserves a hearing.

 

I also like democracy.

 

 

Both of these ideas need to be presented to the people of MI to decide.

 

See ya on Friday Bob... I know you will have clip board in hand :)

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Okay, I had a long conversation with myself about signing the petitions over the weekend.

I've decided that I will sign both.

My reason to do so is because of this:

 

 

 

 

 

Both of these ideas need to be presented to the people of MI to decide.

 

See ya on Friday Bob... I know you will have clip board in hand :)

 

 

Thank you for your support i hope you sign mine i'll be their

Edited by bobandtorey
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Friday after the rally......honoring all the MILegalize signature gatherers.

 
 
13177301_859561547489134_874500772928815
MILegalize
53 mins · 

We are excited to be able to honor our volunteers with a dinner and a celebratory toast at the Nuthouse across from Lugnuts Stadium on Friday after the rally. The public is welcome, but the free food and drink is for petition gatherers. A very special thanks to Kind Provisioning for sponsoring and providing the the dinner and drinks as a salute to all of the MILegalize army!  ‪#‎milegalize‬‪#‎legalizeit‬

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Norby, thank you for the response. I really believe this type of a conversation is needed again, something we should be discussing at the dinner table amongst our families, in the schools (at an early age even), at church, and most certainly in the media and other forums for public debate. Not a 30second sound bite from a politician or a ceo, but real discussion between real people. So thank you for the response.

 

I am no expert either. I did take to reading and leading to alternative views at a younger age, but several decades later, this is far from study on my part. But it isnt a topic that is as terribly difficult as it is made out. I believe that is actually intentional... An obfuscation of the topics relating to out economy and values. It serves a certain minority in our society to do so. It serves the owners of capital and mass production. It serves the ridiculously wealthy. But if we had these discussions, if more people were aware, if they felt the ability to influence related decisions, then we (as a society) would be much better off.

 

One thing i would like to comment on, after a quick observation... What u discuss as a millionaire, working a decent life at an honorable task, and saving a million for their family... That is just over broke in america anymore, imo. Yes they may seem rich to most folks making under 60k per year, but one good illness (or even a liabilty lawsuit) will wipe that million in savings to nothing. Most families in the upper middle income bracket are pretty darn close to the just over broke line than many of us think. Im not talking about people earning over a million per year, but that work to save up those amounts over the course of decades... In particular, small biz owners. Of course there are many other considerations, view points, examples and exceptions.

 

But the one point i would to carry over is your consideration of labor, and its mobility across borders. In this sense, out labor/work has been turned into a unit cost just like any other variable. No longer are companies tied to the communities in which they operate, not do they serve the interests of those populations they sell to. Every decision they, or their professional managers make, is one that ultimately depends on the dollar... the costs and the profits. There are no values assigned or factored in their decisions, it all revilves around and depends upon the profit. Profit doesnt care about people's quality of lives, nor about the quality of the products or services they offer. Profit only concerns itself with selling the most, as cheaply possible, and selling even more the next year for even more profits. The who, what, where and how ultimately depend on finding a matrix that best achieves the most profit. If values have to factor in, then it does so only against how it will affect profits. That is how all decisions within a corporate setting is made.

 

Ok, so back to labor... Labor is just the same... It is a reducible variable tied to profit. We/they can strip it of all values, and represent it based on a dollar figure only. And with the opening of a global economy, that dollar figure (labor) can compete with other dollar figures (again other labor, or other people) from other places in the world. That decision does not include anything about the quality of the societies the labor is located, the quality of the lives of those people, or any other factors relating to what we would call morals or values. People are no longer people, their lives no longer matter. They are just one quantifiable variable (a dollar representation) that can be compared and put into competition with one another. And as such, we (americans) have the quality of our lives stripped from the equation and shopped around against the people of india, cambodia, thailand, venezuela, or whererver. And again, the qulaity of those people's doesnt matter just as the quality of our lives doesnt matter... In that it doesnt matter to the decision makers, the owners of capital and their professional managers and their politicians. All of us are reduced to a simple dollar figure, removed from any other set of values that may compete w that.

 

I believe your point on labor is central to our problems. The fact that our lives are reduced to the simple variable of a dollar sign. The fact that the quality of thise lives is excluded from the calculations of profit, and as such, from the decisions the profit seekers make. We do not factor. We are not important. And to make it worse, we have to compete w other populations w even lower qualities of life... Forced to even lower our quality of life to become even more competitive and keep jobs. And that vicious cycle continues to erode everyone's quality of life (from the perspective of the common worker that is, those that should be our middle class).

 

This reduction and functioning of work and people is a key, fundamental problem w the assumptions of iur capitalist society... That has run amock imo.

 

We need to better discuss, re-evaluate, and infuse some other variables (such as other values that account for the human quality of life) into the process. Im not saying down w capitalism and meritocracy, but we do need address how poorly our economy is doing in addressing the needs of it's people. It needs to be rethought and reworked.

 

And there are many, many decades of serious intellectual thought on how we could do much, much better. I am not as well versed here, but this knowledge does exist... Very much so. But it isnt discussed, and when so, it is obfuscated and/or dismissed out of hand as being 'un-american', when in actuality it would better out qualities of life. They (those that really own capital and control our government) choose which economists that are put into positions of regulatory authority that make/perpetuate policy... But there are many alternative theorists and policies we could insitute if more americans would be open to discussing it.

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Indigro you are so right about how easily one illness can wipe out a life savings. Medicaid spend down requirements can eat-up nearly everything a person saved and leave them with a crappy house a crappy car and almost no money in the bank.

 

Anyone with a significant net worth should invest a few dollars for legal advice and set up a family trust to protect what they worked for.

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