Woman Who Ran Two Marijuana Dispensaries In Kent County Gets Jail, Lecture From Judge

[phaquetoo]

No it isn't, the people won't vote it in.  Have you looked at  the poles?  If you did you would see that of the people who want legalization only 30% of those people want no restriction.  So I hope there is another solution or we're fuked.

vote.......vote.......vote

 

we need to get rid of the current voting system, when some one wins the popular vote and dont win the state, It means our vote dont count!

 

I have talked to so many people about the primary's, I would say that 2 out of 3 I talk to say they are not voting in this presidents race!  is this what the colligiate vote is trying to do?  make the voters stop voting, I know my vote counts when it comes to local votes, but I truly dont beleive our vote counts on a presidential vote!

 

Why would people waiste their time to go out and vote when their vote dont count any how?

 

Im not going to say Im a fan of any one in the primary's, but if trump wins the popular vote and the rnc dont give him the nod that would be criminal!  They actualy want to give it to some one who didnt run in the priamary's,,,,,,,,,I consider that a swift kick in the nuts!

 

Peace

[Norby]

Yes, that is the difference. When it is public, the opposition seems to feel it is being put "in their face," and that they must control or regulate it to avoid some sort of virulent takeover. The public nature of retail cannabis brings all sorts of efforts to control which are impossible (and perhaps not really desired) with private transactions. Private transactions can be ignored, mostly, except to the extent that the opposition can feel good that the police will catch those that pursue aggressive business. Completely and totally different.

So we should be controlled by not wanting to be controlled? Your intellect is dizzying. So patients should be forced to get their meds how if no one advertises?  G3C advertises.  And if I don't own pets I don't go in a pet shop.  Simple as that.  The pet shop isn't "in my face" so people who think it is are in the wrong.

[Norby]

1) zoning

2) grey area felony prosecution

3) nuisance suits and restraining orders

 

Have you been paying attention for the past few years? This is how they are doing it. The only one that works on private transactions is number 2. They have been doing that too, but they are tougher to 1) find; 2) prosecute.

And yet there are still dispenses and farmers mkts operating in the open and they are still busting both.  Seems to me we'd be better sticking together than dividing since we are fighting the same forces.  If all the dispenses closed tomorrow they'd focus efforts solely on caregivers and more would be busted since they seem to have nothing better to do.

Didn't I read a piece saying they had problems making charges stick on dispenses recently?  Yet cg's and patients seem to get just as much prosecution. I don't know, I see more similar than different.  As in they are against ALL of us.

Did you read the sheriffs letter on the sham MMMA law?  You think they were just talking about dispenses?

Edited April 28, 2016 by Norby

[Greg Rx]

So how do you stop a dispensary when the people who work there are caregivers and patients?  Or do you just "want" it to be exclusive?

Do not get me wrong, I would love the convenience of dispensaries, but they just make it too easy for BS to limit our act.

[GregS]

Fer crissake Tut/Wick spelled out the necessary provisions to protect oneself from prosecution under sec. 8. The protection is readily available, and anyone who ignores it does so at their own risk. Shaw has no one to blame but herself. Had she concluded the necessary documents laying out agreement with any and everyone to whom she sold cannabis to abide by the elements of the Affirmative Defense, they could have been put into evidence as prima facie proof that all of the elements had been met with, and jail time and establishing a criminal record for the offenses could have been avoided.

 

It is nothing short of stupid and irresponsible to refuse to protect ourselves that way, and I am getting dammed tired of hearing about people going to jail unnecessarily.

Edited April 28, 2016 by GregS

[Norby]

I see patients and caregivers helping dispensaries fight, and not the reverse. Instead, the dispensaries and commercial growers spend thousands lobbying politicians that just want to crush everybody, thinking they will benefit from any new cannabis law passed. It is difficult to communicate why this is so frustrating, but I've become used to it.

 

There is a thread on the site somewhere in which Highlander describes the similarities with prostitution. Not that the acts are similar, but they are viewed in a similar sense by their opponents. He argued that there are all sorts of ways that women and men are paid for sex that nobody in society cares about or thinks are criminal acts. But then there are the prostitutes on street corners and brothels/massage parlors, which can't be ignored by the nellies. That is what we are dealing with here. The mere existence of retail cannabis drives these people, and ultimately the legislature, to act.

 

Dispensaries have a defense against prosecution for transferring to patients not registered to them. While they do a number of things in the pursuit of business that challenge that defense, it is there nonetheless, and functional in many circumstances. They can prevent arrest to some extent by creating legal arrangements with the municipality in which they operate.

 

This argument that patients and caregivers are doing the same thing, are under the same level of threat, and should stand with dispensaries or be the next in line for arrest and prosecution, is nonsense. Most patients and caregivers accept the limitations written into the law and comply to the best of their ability. If they transfer to a patient not connected to them through the registry, they are not really subject to the same risks as the dispensary, because they generally know the person in their personal life. The patient is not an anonymous, possible CI or undercover, as all dispensaries or other advertisers must contend with.

 

Yes, patients and caregivers have their issues with the opposition, however selling to patients not registered to them is barely a blip on the average patient and caregiver radar.

 

Most patients and caregivers are concerned with issues that dispensaries simply do not care about and will never lift a finger: employment issues, housing issues, driving, custody and child protection, firearms, professional licensing, denial of healthcare services.

 

When dispensaries really get down with it and start to work/help on issues of import to patients and their caregivers, then I'll believe we are on the same side. To date, the dispensaries are more than willing to co-opt patients and their caregivers to fight for open sales, but leave the prosecuted patients and caregivers to their own devices.

There you go throwing EVRYONE under the bus.  Is it true that all dispenses do this?  So selling to patients isn't barely a blip?  What about for all the patients and caregivers who rely on dispenses?  What about my patients, each of which had a dangerous caregiver and had to rely on dispenses before me?

When is the last time you've even been to a dispense, yet you think you can speak to all of them?  Maybe that's the way I should go with caregivers since the only interaction I have had with them is thru stories from my patients?  Or we can both take a more worldly view and not blame everything on either one group.  I'm already there but I could go backwards and side with the dispenses.  Considering I've only had good experiences with the dispenses.

And Greg maybe you could go door to door to the dispenses and tell them instead of blaming them.  I blame the cops personally, they could've chose not to serve the warrant.  Someone has to put an end to this BS.  It certainly won't happen if we don't all start standing up for OUR rights. 

I can't believe you'd stand up for people selling outside their 5 only if they didn't advertise and I guess you can tell just which cg's don't donate to this lobby too.  cg's working to supply the dispenses, funny, I never see you talk about them.  Actually 1 of them was a former cg to one of my patients.

[Wild Bill]

When the proposal was first put before the public it was specifically stated that dispensaries were not included in the law because polls said most voters didn't want them.

 

In an effort to gain legalization that would aid their business model dispensary interests put forth the proposition that home grows were dangerous and the only way to keep patients safe was to outlaw home grows and buy from them.

 

I never heard anyone in a farmer's market advocate taking away my grow rights. That's the difference for me.

 

When this line was crossed the patient/caregiver interests and dispensary interests became mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned.

[Highlander]

The reason I tend to lump all dispensaries together is that they have one of two business models:

 

1. They sell to any patient. This business model is threatened by home grows, and any capitalist business person is going to be motivated by profit and likely to support a legal framework that benefits them most. They have a huge financial interest to throw home grows under the bus.

 

2. They are a retail setting where a CG can transfer to his five patients only. What really is the point of this, and who has heard of such a place? All this does is add unneeded costs to the patient. With only five patients, how could it be worth it to have CG sitting around waiting to sell meds to his patients? Exactly how many transactions per month would such a patient and CG engage in to make it worth anyone's time to transfer meds in this way? I understand that many patients might only be able to afford a few grams at a time such that they might obtain meds once or twice a week. But then they pay a premium for buying in small quantities. I've had a few patients over the years who said they could only buy a few grams at a time. It is simply not worth it to me to provide 1/8th at a time. So I've told such patients that I can go as low as $5/gram if they take at least an ounce. And if they didn't have $140 to get a whole ounce, I told them to just give me a few bucks when they get that ounce and then instead of buying 1/8th twice a week, put that money in a shoebox and next time we meet, they will have enough to buy another ounce and can get that ounce for less than half they would have to pay to buy an ounce 1/8th at a time from a dispensary.

[beourbud]

There you go throwing EVRYONE under the bus.  Is it true that all dispenses do this?  So selling to patients isn't barely a blip?  What about for all the patients and caregivers who rely on dispenses?  What about my patients, each of which had a dangerous caregiver and had to rely on dispenses before me?

When is the last time you've even been to a dispense, yet you think you can speak to all of them?  Maybe that's the way I should go with caregivers since the only interaction I have had with them is thru stories from my patients?  Or we can both take a more worldly view and not blame everything on either one group.  I'm already there but I could go backwards and side with the dispenses.  Considering I've only had good experiences with the dispenses.

And Greg maybe you could go door to door to the dispenses and tell them instead of blaming them.  I blame the cops personally, they could've chose not to serve the warrant.  Someone has to put an end to this BS.  It certainly won't happen if we don't all start standing up for OUR rights. 

I can't believe you'd stand up for people selling outside their 5 only if they didn't advertise and I guess you can tell just which cg's don't donate to this lobby too.  cg's working to supply the dispenses, funny, I never see you talk about them.  Actually 1 of them was a former cg to one of my patients.

Norby. Norby. Norby

 

The reason the dispensary lobby gets thrown under the bus is because they weren't suppose to be on the bus in the first place.

Fact is they tryin to jack the bus.

 

If dispensaries want a seat on the bus , they need to sign a petition to Abrogate

[Highlander]

+2. Unfortunately some folks ride the short bus. And when someone throws someone else under the short bus, it's a quick thump-thump. No time to react between bumps. The long bus at least gives you a chance to roll to safety before the second bump.

[trichcycler]

caregivers selling to their five only are good, until they support a dispensary model or commercial safety testing

Dispensaries are bad

Patients that support. fund, defend  them to the end are good

Politicians that like dispensaries are good

caregivers selling indiscriminately at dispensaries are bad

caregivers selling indiscriminately over a picnic table are good

the guy that charges rent for the picnic tables, and keeps cg jars stocked is bad, sometimes, to some people

cops that like dispensaries are good

Caregivers that sell marijuana to keep the dispensaries stocked are good

caregivers selling to a hundred patients a day has a mmmp defense

dispensaries selling to a hundred patients a day has a mmmp defense

 

(wave cursor over emoji for definition)

[Norby]

When the proposal was first put before the public it was specifically stated that dispensaries were not included in the law because polls said most voters didn't want them.

 

In an effort to gain legalization that would aid their business model dispensary interests put forth the proposition that home grows were dangerous and the only way to keep patients safe was to outlaw home grows and buy from them.

 

I never heard anyone in a farmer's market advocate taking away my grow rights. That's the difference for me.

 

When this line was crossed the patient/caregiver interests and dispensary interests became mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned.

So perpetuating that does what?  Well a lot of these dispenses buy from home grows so.....  And you are telling me that every dispensary out there said ALL home grows are dangerous?

And for teh record, according to my patients, some are.  So where we at now?  You guys are going to let this ruin it all?  Split everyone up so Shuette gets his way?  He said there would be dispensaries and now he fulfilled his prophecy.  I'm sure some of those farmers mkt caregivers sell to dispenses too.  So which farmers mkt cg's are you for?  You guys want to draw this fine line dividing everything up which isn't there.  They all cross over.  The system WOULD NOT work without dispenses or caregivers or patients.  They are all the same thing.  The way people talk around here you would think the MMMA is against dispensaries.  But we know everyone here is not.  See the world however it's easiest for you I guess, I don't want to cause anymore pain that one may get from thinking.  It is so much easier to just lump everything together to get something to hate.  Shuette and Snyder show that.

[Norby]

Norby. Norby. Norby

 

The reason the dispensary lobby gets thrown under the bus is because they weren't suppose to be on the bus in the first place.

Fact is they tryin to jack the bus.

 

If dispensaries want a seat on the bus , they need to sign a petition to Abrogate

There you go blurring lines.  Are you against dispensaries or the dispensary lobby?  You seem to realize they are not the same but try and equate the 2 every chance you get.

 

So you'll throw the people under the bus that are helping with the abrogate petitions?  Probably glad tehy don't come on here so they can't see that you are using them for your own ends all teh while talking behind their back.

[trichcycler]

thats a good point norby.

 

would dispensary haters still hate if dispensaries didnt have any voice in any lobby/police affiliation/law changing/caregiver flaming ? 

if all they did was buy and sell overages at a market driven profit margin....would haters hate that they could make a few bucks by

not composting their overages?

[phaquetoo]

thats a good point norby.

 

would dispensary haters still hate if dispensaries didnt have any voice in any lobby/police affiliation/law changing/caregiver flaming ? 

if all they did was buy and sell overages at a market driven profit margin....would haters hate that they could make a few bucks by

not composting their overages?

gm people realy need to use their imagination, there is absolutly no reason to compost budds!  I am still using what I got a week before christmas, and im sure it would be good a yr from now, w/o saying to break the law, their are ways to make jars air tight, glass normaly dont break underground, (i used to be a bottle collector, I found bottles from the 20's 4 ft under ground in perfect conditon) sure the lids would corrode after a few yrs, but their is no reason for anything of value to be buried that long, it is called rotation! and the beauty is you dont have to do anything ilegal on your property!  we have public land, I dont know any one that compost's their overages, I know people who try too grow less so they dont go over, but I wouldnt play that game, I have known the forrest where I am at for 47 yrs!  It would be so easy for me to have a rotating safe spot not on my property!

 

Peace

[trichcycler]

no way. I wont do that. loose end for me. old weed sucks for me, patients dont want a cure. todays harvest is gone by tuesday/wednesday. its a good thing too, another harvest is cut the day its gone, and the extra weight would be troublesome drying for me.

I do gift with every delivery too. I dont fuss with the muss man, it just isnt worth it, not even to trim the small buds. It sickens me too...so I lollipop every flowering plant in an attempt to avoid the feeling of "loss"

[phaquetoo]

no way. I wont do that. loose end for me. old weed sucks for me, patients dont want a cure. todays harvest is gone by tuesday/wednesday. its a good thing too, another harvest is cut the day its gone, and the extra weight would be troublesome drying for me.

I do gift with every delivery too. I dont fuss with the muss man, it just isnt worth it, not even to trim the small buds. It sickens me too...so I lollipop every flowering plant in an attempt to avoid the feeling of "loss"

There is nothing wrong with being safe than sorry!

 

Peace

[beourbud]

 

 

thats a good point norby.

 

would dispensary haters still hate if dispensaries didnt have any voice in any lobby/police affiliation/law changing/caregiver flaming ? 

if all they did was buy and sell overages at a market driven profit margin....would haters hate that they could make a few bucks by

not composting their overages?

Would dispensaries try so hard to get Mi Legal Lies passed if they were already legal?

 

Legal Lies won't fly. We the People want to help the needy, not the greedy. Besides the dispensaries have proven themselves lightning rods and hotbeds of criminal activity.

 

Abrogate allows for Farmers Markets, disp, co ops. Pt/Pt. what's not to like?

 

Abrogate.......Free the Weed

 

Cannabis is a great compost btw

[Wild Bill]

Norby,

 

What difference does it make if 100% of dispensaries want to end home grows or only 25%? The political spokesman for them do. Those are the ones who drive this shite through the legislature.

 

There are probably good dispensaries and bad. It doesn't matter to me. I don't care if they exist or not, same for farmers markets.

 

But I'm not going to fight for the rights of a group who is actively trying to take away mine.

 

I can appreciate that you might have difficulty finding what you want since you're new to the area, but it really shouldn't be that hard. In the 45 years I've been using cannabis it's never been all that hard to find, in other cities or in other countries.

 

I'm not giving up my legal rights to make things more convenient for you.

(Make some friends here in Michigan, join a bowling league or something, it'll make it easier to find what you need.)

 

PS. I haven't bought or sold anything for years so I have no stake in where they get it or who they sell it to.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Wild Bill

[imiubu]

I was always able to access cannabis and sure didn't need a store front to do so.

 

 

If there is no one putting a 'bug' in the ear of our gov't entities then someone please

explain why now my Mayor who is very liberal on cannabis has the idea that home grows

are dangerous and should not be in residential areas?

[Highlander]

I've never understood patient complaints that they can't find a CG so they go to dispensaries. If you can find a dispensary you can find a caregiver.

[Wild Bill]

I think the problem is finding a caregiver who will sell you just 1 gram on Friday night.

[trichcycler]

I think the problem is finding a caregiver who will sell you just 1 gram on Friday night.

 

 

!!!

[trichcycler]

There is nothing wrong with being safe than sorry!

 

Peace

Exactly!  and thats why i will discard any overages that my patients didnt take without regret. never risking any buried overages or such, a very safe way to go right?

[Alphabob]

If you want good bud and a reliable CG then it could take a while to find. There’s also the problem of many MMJ patients having financial troubles, so it can be difficult to consistently afford it. For myself, not being able to work in four years (zero income), having a bad caregiver (~$1000) and fighting three bogus misdemeanors ($3500+) have taken what was suppose to fund me for the next few years. That is probably the main reason why I haven’t searched for another caregiver because I don’t know how much longer I will be able to afford $100+ a month.

 

Regardless, if the MMMA is not modified then caregivers would have nothing to worry about. The good caregivers would still be able to have their five patients. It would be the bad caregivers who lose their patients to dispensaries, which is exactly what has been happening. If caregivers can continue to offload their surplus to businesses run by other caregivers, which then raises the price/decreases competitiveness, then what is the problem?

 

I do not support a full take-over by dispensaries and commercial growers as the prices would sky-rocket. I’m already seeing increases in price due to raids, ordinances, registration fees, ect. Prices drop when availability increases, not the other way around; so having both a farmer market type dispensary setup and caregivers would be best for the patients. This is more or less what we have right now and everyone’s fine besides those being raided.