Pot-Smokers Harm Gums; Other Physical Effects Slight

[Alphabob]

I don’t know, if they were just making it up why not claim it has the same side-effects as smoking tobacco. Instead they concluded that smoking cannabis is pretty much healthy besides some increased periodontal disease. That takes some restraint coming from someone who spends their life trying to enforce the idea of schedule I.

 

I think there may be legitimacy to increased gum or tooth disease mostly due to increased dry mouth. Just because there is an increased trend doesn't mean everyone will have problems though. It could be genetic or making underling problems worse such as dry mouth from prescription drugs or a disease.

 

These people can only do research and make a career by going to extremes and finding any negatives of smoking cannabis; today's science runs by publication volume, not quality or merit. However, I don’t think anyone should expect any drug to be side-effect free for every single person who takes it. Compared to other drugs it may be 100x safer and maybe even more effective, but it could be true that there is statistically significant increased risk of periodontal disease with smoking cannabis (how much is the real question, it could be a 1% increase for example).

[Restorium2]

I don’t know, if they were just making it up why not claim it has the same side-effects as smoking tobacco. Instead they concluded that smoking cannabis is pretty much healthy besides some increased periodontal disease. That takes some restraint coming from someone who spends their life trying to enforce the idea of schedule I.

 

I think there may be legitimacy to increased gum or tooth disease mostly due to increased dry mouth. Just because there is an increased trend doesn't mean everyone will have problems though. It could be genetic or making underling problems worse such as dry mouth from prescription drugs or a disease.

 

These people can only do research and make a career by going to extremes and finding any negatives of smoking cannabis; today's science runs by publication volume, not quality or merit. However, I don’t think anyone should expect any drug to be side-effect free for every single person who takes it. Compared to other drugs it may be 100x safer and maybe even more effective, but it could be true that there is statistically significant increased risk of periodontal disease with smoking cannabis (how much is the real question, it could be a 1% increase for example).

It's an obvious bait and lead type thing. Dry mouths can increase plaque. Everyone knows that dry mouths can happen from cannabis. So it's an easy sell. But everyone should also know you can have plaque removed if you have it. Or leave it there and get gum disease. It's not fair to cannabis to even have it enter the discussion. To say it causes gum disease is a stretch too far. To even bring it to light was a disservice to the public. It should be a like a public 'dunk tank' of people taking shots at how stupid the science really is. 

[Alphabob]

There are laws that bar many of these people from doing positive research, so the legality doesn’t really matter. They just need to keep pushing out as many papers as possible that provide something other than negative results, even if the results are weak or ambiguous.

 

Most of these papers are not necessarily misleading themselves, it is how they are reported on that is misleading. Journalists overstate the results all the time, and something such as weak evidence for a hypothesis becomes fact.

 

But I don’t think it is dry mouth that really contributes to plaque formation, that seems to be more dependent on saliva pH values (genetics). Though not having saliva can cause plaque and other things to do more damage to your teeth. But if we generally accept that having dry mouth can cause some degree of damage, then cannabis would logically aid in this even if it wasn’t clinically significant (i.e. if it didn’t cause any medical problem or symptoms). That is the only reason why I think it may be true that some clinically significant evidence of periodontal disease does exist relative to smoking cannabis. It would be interesting to test vapping or edibles though and compare the results.

[zachw]

That's a joke. They didn't see the dentist enough. I have perfect gums and have smoked cannabis for over 30 years. My dentist just shakes his head and wonders how I do it. My hygenist works for just a few minutes cleaning and I'm done. Perio charts are perfect. 

Sorry, wrong again. 

 

That's like saying "grandpa chain smoked his whole life and died at 100".

 

Your own personal experience with healthy perio & cannabis does not constitute a scientific study. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by zachw

[pergamum362]

...theres bound to be at least one draw back for SMOKING cannabis...you are still smoking something.

[Restorium2]

^^^^^^^That's like the cop saying, "You are guilty of something, we just have not figured out what it is yet".

 

Talk with your dentist. Understand your dental health and you will have great dental health. Cannabis isn't going to take that away from you. There's no real mechanism in cannabis that causes bad dental health. Empower yourself with real science to fight the bad information or suffer. 

[t-pain]

smoking cannabis causes coughing (side effect, expectorant). burning feeling in throat that dissapates with time/liquids.

http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR

 

also a decreased risk of head, neck, throat and lung cancer due to anti-cancer properties.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25587109

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2277494/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046921/

many more, these are just at random.

 

broncodialator, which is good for asthma, as it acts like a natural inhaler.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6690168

 

what else what else... didnt know there was going to be a pop quiz this morning.

 

edit: increased lung capacity! forgot about that one.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19679602

 

edit edit: i've learned that posting facts with nih.gov studies eliminates the possibility of prohibitionist debate and instead changes minds quickly when they can read for themselves the scientific research results.

[imiubu]

I had my teeth cleaned last week.  I said to the hygenist "you can see where my trouble spots are". 

Her reply was "You don't have any trouble spots!".  Seriously, I've smoked cannabis for over 4 decades

and plaque build up is not an issue at all.  I will also admit to not always caring for my teeth 'properly'.

and I come from a family with bad teeth in general.

Also... I rarely get cotton mouth now days.  I do remember having it really bad with some of the past

swagg though.

 

This is bunk 'science' imo.

 

@beourbud

I think it is important for members to post these types of bs articles/ studies etc... so that we can discuss

them and debunk them.

[Restorium2]

I think it is important for members to post these types of bs articles/ studies etc... so that we can discuss

them and debunk them.

 

Hells yes! I'm surprised our folks are so easily lead down the path.,......   And would rather listen to a bad study than good info from real people. I'm seeing people with some sort of vague guilt about smoking, ready to roll over and admit things that are not true because of that guilt. 

My wife has smoked cannabis for over 30 years too and has perfect dental health. 

If cannabis is guilty, it's not guilty of causing bad teeth. It must be something else it is guilty of. Keep looking. 

[beourbud]

I'm gonna brush my tooth right now.

Edited June 7, 2016 by beourbud

[beourbud]

I had my teeth cleaned last week. I said to the hygenist "you can see where my trouble spots are".

Her reply was "You don't have any trouble spots!". Seriously, I've smoked cannabis for over 4 decades

and plaque build up is not an issue at all. I will also admit to not always caring for my teeth 'properly'.

and I come from a family with bad teeth in general.

Also... I rarely get cotton mouth now days. I do remember having it really bad with some of the past

swagg though.

 

This is bunk 'science' imo.

 

@beourbud

I think it is important for members to post these types of bs articles/ studies etc... so that we can discuss

them and debunk them.

Right on, The door is always open, I'm always willing and eager to listen. The bad actors are easier to spot Edited June 7, 2016 by beourbud

[imiubu]

I'm gonna brush my tooth right now.

lol

[Alphabob]

Similar study from 2008: Cannabis Smoking and Periodontal Disease Among Young Adults
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=181408

 

After controlling for tobacco smoking (measured in pack-years), sex, irregular use of dental services, and dental plaque, the relative risk estimates for the highest cannabis exposure group were as follows: 1.6 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.2-2.2) for having 1 or more sites with 4 mm or greater CAL; 3.1 (95% CI, 1.5-6.4) for having 1 or more sites with 5 mm or greater CAL; and 2.2 (95% CI, 1.2-3.9) for having incident attachment loss (in comparison with those who had never smoked cannabis).

 

This study measures the gap in your gums and teeth to rate periodontal disease. The relative risk is not huge even for the heaviest users, maybe twice as likely for someone who doesn’t smoke cannabis. Prevalence of periodontal disease for people in the 20-34 age group is 3.84%. With smoking cannabis were maybe looking at 6-7% of heavy cannabis users developing periodontal disease. This is entirely possible and at the same time totally irrelevant for 93-96% of heavy cannabis users.

 

http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/DataStatistics/FindDataByTopic/GumDisease/PeriodontaldiseaseAdults20to64.htm

 

Authors of 2016 article: Madeline Meier; Avshalom Caspi; Magdalena Cerdá; Robert Hancox; HonaLee Harrington; Renate Houts; Richie Poulton; Sandhya Ramrakha; Murray Thomson; Terrie E. Moffitt.

Authors of 2008 article: Murray Thomson; Richie Poulton; Jonathan Broadbent; Terrie Moffitt; Avshalom Caspi; James Beck; David Welch; Robert Hancox

 

This just goes to show my point, that researchers are trying to publish as many papers as possible without regards to merit. This whole thing with dental health already happened in 2008, but I guess reproducing results is always good; being a media whore maybe not. What the headlines should read is that cannabis is safe for dental health besides 3% of the heaviest smokers for whatever reason (genetics, other prescription drugs?).

Edited June 7, 2016 by Alphabob

[Alphabob]

It's paid access only for the new article, which I think is complete BS for an article being spread all over the news. Their abstract is also insufficient to tell what exactly this new study is saying. It seems that they have used the same dataset from New Zealand as the 2008 article.

 

The results are likely the same however. Only about 3% of the heavy cannabis users showed signs of increased periodontal disease. The high exposure group consists of 182 individuals, which means only 5-6 showed signs. The other groups had less of an effect and the total sample size was 1000.

 

Overblown and misleading conclusions, possibly some bias due to selection size. However, it can’t be completely ruled out that 3% of the heaviest users have increased periodontal disease. The sample size is small enough to induce some bias, but not enough to make the study completely irrelevant. Either way, do we really care about a 3% increase? This could easily be explained by predisposed individuals, combinations with certain prescription drugs, ect due to significant reduction in saliva. There could be synergistic effects as commonly observed when compounding prescription medications.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Alphabob

[t-pain]

did you try it in scihub website ?

[t-pain]

works here

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2016.0637

[Mpharns]

A dry mouth (xerostomia) is a condition where the salivary glands fail to produce enough saliva to keep the mouth moist. Once this happens, there is no way for food debris or bacteria to be washed from the surface of teeth and this can greatly increase the chances of cavities and periodontal (gum) disease.

This is NOT the only thing that causes gum disease but you can ask any dentist if dry mouth causes it and they will say yes. Pot ,( and pills) cause dry mouth. This isn't a witch hunt it's a fact.

[t-pain]

cotton / dry mouth is chronically dry mouth. cannabis may cause temporary dry mouth but i doubt even more than 10 minutes. and i bet even that varies by person to person.

 

e.g. i havent had dry mouth ever? maybe once? from smoking or eating cannabis.

and it wasnt "dry mouth". just a little parched.

[+washtenaut]

Here is Time's take on the 'study'

 

http://time.com/4359757/pot-smoking-marijuana-cannabis-health/?xid=homepage

[Mpharns]

Also, I think you are wrong about this.

I'm not wrong it's the human body and it is fact but I'm done with this topic now.

Have a nice day

[t-pain]

I'm not wrong it's the human body and it is fact but I'm done with this topic now.

Have a nice day

zap meant he thinks you are wrong about cannabis causing dry mouth.

[beourbud]

Funny, using bad mouth to badmouth.

[Alphabob]

Dry mouth is one of the most common side-effects of cannabis use (~66%), although not everyone experiences it and to varying degrees. Smoking once a day and having a little bit of dry mouth isn’t going to do much. It needs to happen chronically over several years before damage is noticed. Other factors can easily accelerate this such as combinations with prescription drugs or certain diseases. I never really had a problem with dry mouth until I started taking various prescription drugs like opioids and muscle relaxers. I can have a completely dry mouth for hours now after smoking a bowl if I’m not careful.

 

But it’s difficult to call this study a fraud, more like insignificant for 97% of users and overblown in the media. There’s no doubt that some of the authors are heavily anti-cannabis and it shows in their conclusion. However, if all they can show is a 3% increase in gum disease through all their efforts and no other physical harm, then that’s a victory for cannabis users. The ‘damaging’ effects of cannabis have all been debunked now. If they want to talk about physiological effects then maybe they should take tobacco into consideration, a drug that convinces people to blow $1000's while slowly killing them. Or maybe the opioids that turn normal people into hardcore addicts searching the streets for heroin.

 

Let's not jump to everything being a conspiracy however. Is how they approached the media inappropriate? Yes. Is their study made-up? Probably not.

[Budz-4-U]

I have no issues with my gums.

[+washtenaut]

The antis are certainly throwing everything at the wall these days to find something, anything, that will stick.  The arguments are easier and easier to pick apart because they are just plain weak. 

 

A good number of the remaining anti cannabis experts are so called addiction experts.  Hmmm, wonder why...

 

I looked at the link above to the actual study.  Did you notice the conclusion section?  These 'addiction experts' just cannot help themselves.  Here it is:

 

This study has a number of implications. First, cannabis use for

up to 20 years is not associated with a specific set of physical

health problems in early midlife. The sole exception is that can-

nabis use is associated with periodontal disease. Second, can-

nabis use for up to 20 years is not associated with net meta-

bolic benefits (ie, lower rates of metabolic syndrome). Third, our

results should be interpreted in the context of prior research

showing that cannabis use is associated with accidents and in-

juries, bronchitis, acute cardiovascular events, and, possibly, in-

fectious diseases and cancer, as well as poor psychosocial and

mental health outcomes.