Jump to content

Prayers For Orlando Victims And Families


beourbud

Recommended Posts

Interesting, this guy was an armed guard, with prior complaints, investigated and allowed to proceed.

 

He was one of the good guys with a gun. How long will the courts/leo condone the Blue Wall

 

Just like Trump is the direct product of the fknrepublicans, this media savy American is a product of the NRA and the proliferation of weapons of Mass Destruction. As evidenced by Orlando

 

How is it that in 2016 you can buy a gun and kill folk easier than grow cannabis to elevate your condition?

 

VOTE

Edited by beourbud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy moley, type baseball bat murders into your search engine!

For the record, I was taught how to defend myself w/ an aluminum bat

long before I learned how to handle a fire arm, shrug.

 

I am of the opinion that people who would do bodily harm/ kill other humans

are most likely pre disposed to do so and the instrument they choose is only

secondary.  Guns just happen to be the more efficient method.

 

More laws/ restrictions will not change this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"The focus on Mateen’s wife came as investigators continued to seek a concrete motive in the attack that left 49 people dead. Mateen, 29, said he carried out the attack because he wanted “Americans to stop bombing his country,” according to a witness who survived the rampage and heard the shooter make a 911 call."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A clear headed, well financed, criminal or terrorist with no time constraints will most certainly find a way to kill if he/she decides to do so.  No further gun control measures will change that.  I don't know of any 'common sense' new gun restrictions that would have stopped the Orlando murderer.

 

There are a whole lot of other situations however that some new measures may help.  The gun trafficker could be stopped by restricting say, the number of guns that can be purchased each month.  The impulsive killer could possibly be stopped by a one month waiting period.  The mentally ill killer could be stopped by a database check that might require a personal interview by FBI for those with a history of mental illness.  The terror watch list killer possibly stopped by having that be checked as part of the background check.  The gun thief stopped by some sort of biometric firing controls, like fingerprint ID.  The toddler shootings stopped by some childproofing mechanism. etc., etc

 

And no, these measures would not be successful in stopping all such events, but preventing some would be great at this point.  It is a shame that we can't even discuss such possibilities though without being shouted down by fearful gun owners screaming, 'Second Amendment!!  Second Amendment!!'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Please tell me which of my facts are wrong except for my utter disdain for the NRA because of their relentless attempts to prevent any kind of reasonable restrictions on acquiring firearms.

 

Furthermore:

 

- Background checks are not required under federal law for intrastate firearm transfers between private parties and consequently it is completely up to the states to perform them. 

 

- A dozen states still do not submit mental health records to NICS. 

 

- Legislation allowing the attorney general to block sales of firearms or explosives to people as long as there is “a reasonable belief that such individual may use a firearm or explosive in connection with terrorism.” was BLOCKED by Republicans in a straight party-line vote!!!

 

And oh yeah, Farmer Brown, regarding your claim that gun laws haven't accomplished anything in Australia, here is a tongue-in-cheek article whose title says it all:

 

Australia Enjoys Another Peaceful Day Under Oppressive Gun Control Regime

"...the peaceful two decades that have followed are "probably" because the Australian government decided to strip us of our God-given right to own projectile weaponry capable of shooting down helicopters."

 Ok, first off the government is not barred from studying gun deaths, the facts are out there.

There is a central federal database.

Mental health does not exist here anymore, there are very few mental institutions, Sandy Hook guy was nuts, his mother could not get him help, he murdered his mother, stole her guns, shot up a school.

legislation blocked -explosives, really? Those sales are very restricted!!

I read the article, methinks all on here should read it!There was mention in the article about us yanks being able to buy machine guns????????????? Only licensed collectors and the military can own that type of firearm. Did you read the comments? Not so many comments praising the article.

Also one of the reasons the NRA has such a powerful influence is due to numbers of members who are generally proactive in writing their congress people. I am a life long Democrat, life member of the NRA, and socially liberal, having said that I mostly do not agree with their politics, except when it comes to the right to bear arms. I am not going to allow myself to be unarmed, if I can help it. I live in the bush and I have livestock that occaisionally need defending, I need arms to harvest meat for my family. And if the terrible ever did happen, I will not be unarmed when some fascist SOB tries to harm me or mine.If I sound a bit paranoid that is because of all the right wing nutcases out there. Sounds like you like what has been done in Austrailia,personally it would scare me to think that only a criminal or a cop has guns. As far as their gun law accomplishments, the only accomplishment was disarming it's citizenry.The reason the second amendment came about was that most Americans at that time did not have firearms( militias had many that carried shovels and picks) and without citizens being armed, one cannot form a well armed militia.

Farmer Brown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps you could produce a link to this incident? Surely there would be a record of this attrocity. Seeing as how it seems it would be a record itself ...of people killed with a blunt instrument.

 As I stated in my previous comment, I have dial up internet service and producing links and such takes a week to download. It was on the national news a few years ago, not really sure of the time frame as I am getting old, but if you have high speed ,I'm sure you could google it :>)

Farmer Brown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since I am on a rant and it is raining out I will( to some folks chagrine)continue. One more thing that bugs me is that one idiot goes out and does something stupid and then the other 99% of us have to pay for it, think child proof pill bottles, irks my behind to no end, I only have to take one thyroid pill a day and in the morning when I am supposed to take it, my arthritis is sometimes active then and have troubles opening the bottle and it just goes on and on.I've never even had any kids!! Modern society has come to the point that we cater to idiots, criminals, even other cultures that hate us,I have no problem with diplomacy, but........ Why do the most of us have to live with idiotic laws that only serve to make life morecomplicated than it already is??????????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thank You!

 

I Aplogize to You also, obviously you didnt get to read my post's lol some times that is a good thing!

 

:butt2:

 

Peace

 Hey Phaquetoo,

I did not get read your post, must have gotten deleted before I had a chance, was it directed to me??? Did you challenge me to a duel?? I do not get pissed very easily, I love to laugh and will laugh at myself first. So what are your choice of weapons in this duel????

Farmer Brown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This really is tragic, I feel so very sorry for the families in all this, most of those people will never be the same. I do not really see anyway this could have been prevented. I lived in Detroit for 6 years and I can tell you first hand,there are many homemade hand guns there, any machine shop or anyone that has machine shop equipment can make one, I think they called them zip guns, if my memory serves me right.We really need to increase federal and state spending on mental health and re-open some of the mental institutions( the old one in Newberry is now a prison). I have a very good friend that had a career as a corrections officer, worked in solitary confinement, he said the majority of the prisoners in solitary have a long history of mental illness, he was even a bit resentful that he had to babysit someone that should have been getting help in a mental institution, he felt some of those guys were just left in there to rot with no help what so ever. The shooter in Orlando may not even did what he did if he just had someone to talk to about his conflictions with his religion, his perceived responsibilities and his guilt over having homosexual feelings.There again the mental health issue raises it's ugly head again. Loks like it is about to stop raining for a bit, back out to the gardens!! I can hear the sighs of relief :>)

Farmer Brown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 Ok, first off the government is not barred from studying gun deaths, the facts are out there.

 

SNIP

 

Yeah, the facts are out there and you are wrong. Do some research before asserting something that is 100% false especially something that is well known information which can be easily verified by a 10 second google search.

 

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

Edited by zachw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zachw,

I read the Public Radio International article you supplied a link to. The title of the article is just a bit misleading, the amendment never made it out of the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee, the title read: Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence. Congress includes both the House of Representatives and the Senate, as I previously stated it died in the U.S. House Appropriations Committee which,by the way, is not Congress. But I did find from your link, another link to the CDC's National Violent Death Reporting System which tracks violent death( in different categories)in 32 states, one of which is Michigan.Part of the data includes multiple homicides( Orlando and others) and homicides followed by suicide.( word for word from the site). So there you have it, at least a good portion of the facts are tracked by the CDC. Having previously stated as being a gun supporter I would be willing to limit the size of magazines for private citizens, such as 12 to 15 bullets instead of 30 or 50, which probably would have little effect as even with an AR-15 one pull of the trigger and you get one bullet fired, they are not sold to the public as fully automatic, pull the trigger you empty the machine gun within seconds.

So I do stand partially corrected, I am man enough to admit that!! Also Public Radio International and National Public Radio ( even though I listen to them) are notoriously anti- gun. I suppose guns are like lawyers, you say you don't want anything to do with them until you need one( no personal offense there lawyers :>)

Farmer Brown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And while gun violence is down from the 90's levels suicide rates amongst white males age(forgot something like 30-65) have doubled.  So overall people are killing other people less and killing themselves at 2x the rate.  But in this age of 24 hour news and internet, you'd never know it.

 

So things have changed for the better to society at the cost of the individual. There is something going on there but if you focus on the gun you'll miss it.

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just using the info quoted by CDC in Zachs' post, which provides data from 2005 - 2014, (11 yrs) the difference between homicides went down by 2,509 or declined by 22%. While the suicide rate went up 7,850 or increased 22%.
 
   I would attribute this mostly to the continuing austerity policies of the global governing forces, including the diminished 'middle class', the 'housing bubble', 'free trade' policies and on going 'Union Busting' tactics as well as other factors like drug overdoses prescribed (mostly) and other. The overall increase in population may have some bearing having risen by nearly 21 million 2005-2014 or 6.5%
 

 
...ps. Inexplicably the totals for the Suicide Rates if added individually by the age groups, as they are represented, do not add up to their Overall Total provided in the last column, gf ... Which if not explained otherwise adds significantly to the illusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, think child proof pill bottles, irks my behind to no end, I only have to take one thyroid pill a day and in the morning when I am supposed to take it, my arthritis is sometimes active then and have troubles opening the bottle and it just goes on and on.I've never even had any kids!!

 

 

They have caps at the pharmacy that are child proof one way and not upside down. Just ask.

 

Life is too short to get worked up over stupid crapola. Especially  when you were torturing  yourself needlessly.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The AMA voted last night to make 'Gun Violence' a public health issue.
 
"To see this through, however, Congress would need to lift a 20-year-old ban that blocks the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from funding any research related to gun violence. But the AMA, with one of the largest political lobbying budgets of any organization in the U.S., appears ready to fight."
 
and other news from the Hill: GOP agrees to allow 'Gun Control' votes:
 
"Senate Democrats ended a nearly 15-hour filibuster early Thursday after Republican Party leaders reportedly agreed to allow votes on two proposed gun control measures."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The AMA voted last night to make 'Gun Violence' a public health issue.

 

"To see this through, however, Congress would need to lift a 20-year-old ban that blocks the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from funding any research related to gun violence. But the AMA, with one of the largest political lobbying budgets of any organization in the U.S., appears ready to fight."

 

and other news from the Hill: GOP agrees to allow 'Gun Control' votes:

 

"Senate Democrats ended a nearly 15-hour filibuster early Thursday after Republican Party leaders reportedly agreed to allow votes on two proposed gun control measures."

I wonder if they'll also be able to study psychotropic pharmaceuticals and their effect.  Take away someone's anxiety without the underlying confusion and anger and your looking for trouble.  I don't understand, because I'm not a neurologist/psychologist, how these drugs can cause suicidal thoughts but not homicidal thoughts?  When they gave me steroids, sudafed and antibiotics for eczema I wanted to kill others and I wanted to kill myself.  I then called the doc office and told them and it seems it was unwanted side effects from the roids and sudafed and they told me then, not when I got them, to stop immediately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A clear headed, well financed, criminal or terrorist with no time constraints will most certainly find a way to kill if he/she decides to do so.  No further gun control measures will change that.  I don't know of any 'common sense' new gun restrictions that would have stopped the Orlando murderer.

 

There are a whole lot of other situations however that some new measures may help.  The gun trafficker could be stopped by restricting say, the number of guns that can be purchased each month.  The impulsive killer could possibly be stopped by a one month waiting period.  The mentally ill killer could be stopped by a database check that might require a personal interview by FBI for those with a history of mental illness.  The terror watch list killer possibly stopped by having that be checked as part of the background check.  The gun thief stopped by some sort of biometric firing controls, like fingerprint ID.  The toddler shootings stopped by some childproofing mechanism. etc., etc

 

And no, these measures would not be successful in stopping all such events, but preventing some would be great at this point.  It is a shame that we can't even discuss such possibilities though without being shouted down by fearful gun owners screaming, 'Second Amendment!!  Second Amendment!!'

Sorry Washtenaut, there was an NPR thing with a psychologist that said that a million people fit the description of the mental capacity to flip out but only 1 in a million does and there are no markers to show who will and who wont.  Not something you can put on a health professional to figure out.  And saying someone is mentally ill and shouldn't be able to protect themselves is still very wishy washy as any predictor of anything. Also most mentally ill go undiagnosed, we have to fix that system first. And the people who kill usually already have a gun.  I don't have stats but a waiting period would likely do no good although it's a good idea.  The terror watch list I can put u on tonite.  There is an article of how shoddy that system is and you can't rebutt your accuser and none of the terrorists in any of these shootings made the watchlist.  Smart guns will never happen till the law imposed by the gov. of New Jersey is lifted.  Once any smart gun in the US is sold all other guns than smart guns become illegal in NJ.  They are out to get your guns(some of them and they ruin any progress being made).  I could go into the Safe act" in NYS and what politicians said on live radio about how some politicians wanted the safe act to have cops going around collecting "assault rifles" the next morning.  There's more but I'm getting tired of talking about guns.  Gun owners are just as fearful as people are about these events, they just have a different response.  We want stuff that will actually work there's thousands of gun laws on teh books already that don't do squat but make an innocent non violent man a criminal for no other reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 Hey Phaquetoo,

I did not get read your post, must have gotten deleted before I had a chance, was it directed to me??? Did you challenge me to a duel?? I do not get pissed very easily, I love to laugh and will laugh at myself first. So what are your choice of weapons in this duel????

Farmer Brown

3 grm green crack joints and sputnick, pine apple chunk cannabutter!

 

I bet I can put ya down! :yahoo-wave:

 

Peace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have felt for years that the media attention drives these events as much as anything. Wackos who want to be on the national news as they kill themselves, either to further their pet cause or just to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

The only headlines any of them should get is;

"An unnamed criminal killed X number of people and was killed by police."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...