Prayers For Orlando Victims And Families

[pergamum362]

What is the real problem that causes the extreme amount of gun violence and deaths in the US? Tens of thousands every year?

a people problem, an inequality problem, the fact that we have been bombing these countries for decades for what? A huge underground black market dealing in illicit drugs, where the profits are high enough to make people want to kill other people thanks to the "war on drugs". A society/economy that almost explicity tells you to go to college so you can get a good job, but then you get there and find out you cant afford it, so you take out loan after loan, then when its all said and done, your stuck climbing out of a hole that keeps getting deeper. I mean we have people younger than me, fleeing the country to escape the debt. These are just our "first world" problems. I mean for one group of people to be poverty level poor, another group has to be incredible rich and this kind of inequality on the level we have today, just came about in the last 70 years.

 

Then theres the radical islamists, you know the ones responcible for most of these mass shootings and terrorist attacks. Have you seen what we have done to that region in the last 20-30 years? Imagine growing up in that, being a child , literally in a warzone as a civilian and everytime you find a bomb fragment the words "property of the united states" has been stamped on it. Our bombs have not always been as accurate as they are today and we are still to this day employing the use of cluster bombs because they are cheap and effective..depending on what you call effective,wether they be from our own planes or sold to another military to be dropped from theres.

 

The "gun" problem is not a problem at all, its a society problem, a people problem, and an economic problem. More gun laws and restrictions will not solve anything. The places in the world with the strictest gun laws , are still plaqued by the very same things we are. What is it going to take for the mass of people to realize these things, when the only people that are left with guns are police and criminals?

[pergamum362]

Take away the guns, then itll be bombs or poison, or just a good old fashioned stoning. Until the underlying problems are fixed, no amount of regulation, watching, statistical anaylze, profiling or any such measure will proove effective period.

[+Malamute]

Inequality

Foreigners

Drugs

College debt

Financial management choices

Being poor

Islamists(btw, they are not even sorta responsible for the majority of mass shootings in this country http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data)

Foreigners again

Society/people/money

 

Hmmm,  interesting list.

 

By mention, your main reasons for thousands of gun deaths in US:

 

1) Foreigners/Islamists

2) Money/debt/poverty

3) Drugs

4) A society that encourages gun violence?

 

Hmmm.

[+Malamute]

I would typically have a different list.

 

Domestic violence

Testosterone

Heartbreak

Obsession

Desperation

 

Then the more common general topics of poverty, easy access, glorification.

 

p.s. I would add fear(rational or irrational) to the list.

[pergamum362]

I would typically have a different list.

 

Domestic violence

Testosterone

Heartbreak

Obsession

Desperation

 

Then the more common general topics of poverty, easy access, glorification.

 

p.s. I would add fear(rational or irrational) to the list.

but your list, aside from ?testosterone? Are just reactions to the causes from your first summarized list of my post.

[pergamum362]

Number one cause...economic problems, resulting from a poor economy, causing desperation, depression, and finally the f it. That would be my guess. Just glancing over that list, the words laid off and enemployed popped out at least a couple times.

[+washtenaut]

We don't really need to put this in a single category.  Certainly there are elements of homophobia, weapons access, Islamic terrorism, and possible racial hatred in this tragic event.

[pergamum362]

We don't really need to put this in a single category.  Certainly there are elements of homophobia, weapons access, Islamic terrorism, and possible racial hatred in this tragic event.

certainly there is, but this event will undoubtly be used to pass some crap, then forgotten until the next time. The proccess will repeat itself until there is no 2nd ammendment left, at least that is what i take away from it.

[pergamum362]

We already have the senators and congressman coming out stating AGAIN that we dont need these weapons to hunt. We dont have the 2nd ammendment to hunt.

Edited June 17, 2016 by pergamum362

[+washtenaut]

certainly there is, but this event will undoubtly be used to pass some crap, then forgotten until the next time. The proccess will repeat itself until there is no 2nd ammendment left, at least that is what i take away from it.

 

This slippery slope argument is simply fear based.  Let me explain before you start typing. 

 

Today, with the current legislature it is near impossible to get anything called 'gun control' even voted on, let alone passed.  Time will tell if this latest shooting will change that but I seriously doubt that it will.

 

Looking forward, why do you feel that the majority of the legislature will turn 180 degrees and support all these future gun rights limiting laws that will lead to the death of the 2nd Amendment?  Why do you feel that after years of upholding gun rights, these legislative supporters will suddenly abandon you?  I don't see the logic of that argument.

[beourbud]

I can only imagine what the Gun Industry/Lobby is saying behind closed doors but I am sure it's something like;

" We should be ok, if they couldn't pass any legislation after the massacre of 19 1st graders at Sandy Hook, they sure as ell won't pass any for 49 queers"

 

Thank you for facilitating the hate and mayhem. GOP, NRA

Edited June 17, 2016 by beourbud

[pergamum362]

This slippery slope argument is simply fear based.  Let me explain before you start typing. 

 

Today, with the current legislature it is near impossible to get anything called 'gun control' even voted on, let alone passed.  Time will tell if this latest shooting will change that but I seriously doubt that it will.

 

Looking forward, why do you feel that the majority of the legislature will turn 180 degrees and support all these future gun rights limiting laws that will lead to the death of the 2nd Amendment?  Why do you feel that after years of upholding gun rights, these legislative supporters will suddenly abandon you?  I don't see the logic of that argument.

simply because it is, and has been slowly taking place around the world. None the less, im going to back out of this discussion now, im not one to normally debate what i consider serious topics over the internet. Its been real enlightening.

[Norby]

What is the real problem that causes the extreme amount of gun violence and deaths in the US? Tens of thousands every year?

Hate.  And the gun violence rate is down from teh 90's though the suicide rate by gun is up and the rate of homicides committed by law enforcement runs 10% of those #'s and some of those are self defense, but most are drive bys and shootings at bars as for mass shootings.  And it's america, we don't have good mental health services, we don't have free health care and we are competing against 3rd world nations for wages and our politicians have sold out to the corporations so the focus in the economy goes to them, there is 24 hours news and internet so the reality of the world gets skewed thru that, both parties are radicalizing and frequently use yellow journalism and play on fear.  Sure I missed a few.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Norby

[Norby]

This slippery slope argument is simply fear based.  Let me explain before you start typing. 

 

Today, with the current legislature it is near impossible to get anything called 'gun control' even voted on, let alone passed.  Time will tell if this latest shooting will change that but I seriously doubt that it will.

 

Looking forward, why do you feel that the majority of the legislature will turn 180 degrees and support all these future gun rights limiting laws that will lead to the death of the 2nd Amendment?  Why do you feel that after years of upholding gun rights, these legislative supporters will suddenly abandon you?  I don't see the logic of that argument.

Ummm, NYS Safe Act?  It's happened in every empire when the gov't starts to press on it's citizens too much and have to usurp their rights.  For the Safe Act politicians wanted cops rounding up assault rifles the next day with no trial, no reason.  Taking property without representation and rebuttal are against the constitution but it certainly doesn't stop politicians.  More people are moving to the cities and more people are voting against guns.  Hunting is at an all time low in our history, it's the perfect time to be feeling things out for when to strike.

[solabeirtan]

How about steroid use. He was known to work out. That crap will warp your brain, shrink your tool, make you psychotic and mean as hell. As well there may have been other substances that contributed to his 'psychological myopia'... including alcohol!

 

 

" In relation to psychological myopia, researchers have examined proxy versus fundamental attributes. A proxy attribute is the factor that the decision maker is most aware of. "

Edited June 18, 2016 by solabeirtan

[Wild Bill]

And it's america, we don't have good mental health services, we don't have free health care and we are competing against 3rd world nations for wages and our politicians have sold out to the corporations so the focus in the economy goes to them, there is 24 hours news and internet so the reality of the world gets skewed thru that, both parties are radicalizing and frequently use yellow journalism and play on fear.

 

No wonder they're afraid of us having guns!

[phaquetoo]

but your list, aside from ?testosterone? Are just reactions to the causes from your first summarized list of my post.

I dont think I have seen him get spanked like that before  Bawahahahahahahaha!

   

 

Peace

 

p.s it was a good spanking though!

[phaquetoo]

I can only imagine what the Gun Industry/Lobby is saying behind closed doors but I am sure it's something like;

" We should be ok, if they couldn't pass any legislation after the massacre of 19 1st graders at Sandy Hook, they sure as ell won't pass any for 49 queers"

 

Thank you for facilitating the hate and mayhem. GOP, NRA

lol and I got spanked!

 

good edit!

[pergamum362]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G0SloK6pB4g Ill just leave this right, for the people who think lawful citizens shouldnt have guns.

[Norby]

I think this is a good argument although stats I haven't checked.  Except for the long gun stats, those I have seen.

 

https://www.facebook.com/rik.sexton/videos/4123638147897/

 

I don't quite buy the predator prey theory as you are trying to take the claws from teh predator but the only ones that will line up to be deweaponized would be the gazelle.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Norby