Editorial: Pot Testing Program Absurd

[t-pain]

shouldn't affect mmma patients anyhow

[phaquetoo]

shouldn't affect mmma patients anyhow

That is what they are looking for pt's and c.g's!  Wake up!

 

Did you read the 7 mill grant roscomon, crawford and otsego got to do just that, profile people in their county's on I-75!

 

They are getting grants to bust pt's and c.g's mostly for ilegal transport!

 

Peace

 

edit=

Edited June 21, 2016 by phaquetoo

[imiubu]

shouldn't affect mmma patients anyhow

 

I disagree, patients are exactly who they targeted with this so called "pilot program".

 

I think it's quite naive to think otherwise.

 

At the hearing when R. Robinson addressed the possible abuse to patients... she was ignored.

[kindfolk]

I call moo poo...

they generate far more revenue with DUI cases than the marijuana cases

$2,000???

these days it cost somewhere around $10,000 to get out of a DUI

it is true that the state troopers are getting heavily funded to increase the number of of meth, cocaine and heroin busts because they often net large amounts of cash from them

while many of the troopers are not in favor of legalized medical marijuana, there are many who are

but they are not waging a war on mmmj patients...

don't be worried if you are in compliance with the mmmj laws

KF

[Alphabob]

Jone's initial attempt at passing a saliva-testing bill was publically motivated by the MMMA passing. After failing to get the bill passed twice, he finally learned that he had to convince everyone it wouldn’t affect MMMA patients and find sympathy for his cause. The prior isn’t true however, because the bill hasn’t changed a bit since original criticisms and patients remain his #1 target.

 

Unfortunately, even the individuals who wrote the house analysis lied and said it wouldn’t affect patients “as long as they do not show signs of impaired driving and are otherwise in compliance with the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act”. Where in this bill does it even mention medical marijuana? It doesn’t… it says all schedule I drugs, ANY AMOUNT. You can have a non-zero amount of THC in your system and drive fine as proven in people v Koon. So what was told to congress and written in the house analysis simply does not line up with reality.

 

You will be asked for a swab if you have bloodshot/glassy eyes, ‘smell’ of cannabis, possibly just by having your med card or some bud on you, ect. They can make stuff up if they want. When you really get down to it, they are fabricating/falsifying evidence and your fate will depend on the judge/prosecutor. If you are going to claim that a test provides evidence of something such as intoxication, then it needs to be scientifically vetted. This on the other hand is not, and therefore provides zero evidence of intoxication. At least alcohol, a recreational drug, can have a certain blood concentration related to the average person’s increased likelihood of causing an accident. That itself is on shaky grounds. This is insanity… and they are giving all the power to the crooked MSP. It is an experimental witch-hunt for medical marijuana patients; the MMMA will be made ineffective for these select counties.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Alphabob

[imiubu]

I call moo poo...

they generate far more revenue with DUI cases than the marijuana cases

$2,000???

these days it cost somewhere around $10,000 to get out of a DUI

it is true that the state troopers are getting heavily funded to increase the number of of meth, cocaine and heroin busts because they often net large amounts of cash from them

while many of the troopers are not in favor of legalized medical marijuana, there are many who are

but they are not waging a war on mmmj patients...

don't be worried if you are in compliance with the mmmj laws

KF

 

I vehemently disagree.  As I said previously, I was at the judiciary hearing, I saw the posturing, I heard what was said.

There were only 4 of us there as patients and then they only left time for 1 person to object and 1 other to speak out

against this atrocious piece of garbage.

There are no protections for MM patients ... none whatsoever.

I am not a violent person and I will tell you, I had an urge to slap that smirk off Jones' face.

So smug and sure... and he got his bill passed didn't he.

 

Again, we are the low hanging fruit, easy pickin's with out any fuss at all.

[Alphabob]

Yea, Jones knew exactly what he was doing this time around and wasn’t taking no for an answer. I’m sure he left his intended amount of time for the medical community to speak. How anyone could think this bill wouldn’t target patients when it is THE EXACT SAME BILL as before I’m not sure. Here in Michigan, serious problems with what these people want seem to magically disappear over time.

 

Emergency manager law too dangerous and removes democracy? Forget what the people want, let’s pass a new version anyways. Flint river too poisonous to drink without $61 million in upgrades? No problem, let a few years pass and switch them over anyways without treatment. Saliva testing bill intended to illegally target medical patients, faulty and not backed by science? Again no problem, we’ll just lie to everyone and say it won’t harm them the next time around. This is the type of stuff we need to be throwing politicians in jail for. Lying pieces of **** that want to violate the most basic civil rights of the poor and disenfranchised. Sorry, but if you harm people through your shady dealings then you should have to pay for it, doesn't matter who you are. If your a politician or leader harming the people you should be protecting, then your not very good at your job in the first place.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Alphabob

[phaquetoo]

That is what they are looking for pt's and c.g's!  Wake up!

 

Did you read the 7 mill grant roscomon, crawford and otsego got to do just that, profile people in their county's on I-75!

 

They are getting grants to bust pt's and c.g's mostly for ilegal transport!

 

Peace

 

edit=

 

The above grant is to arrest people like you!

I call moo poo...

they generate far more revenue with DUI cases than the marijuana cases

$2,000???

these days it cost somewhere around $10,000 to get out of a DUI

it is true that the state troopers are getting heavily funded to increase the number of of meth, cocaine and heroin busts because they often net large amounts of cash from them

while many of the troopers are not in favor of legalized medical marijuana, there are many who are

but they are not waging a war on mmmj patients...

don't be worried if you are in compliance with the mmmj laws

KF

You wont be calling moo poo when your sitting in a jail cell, and than a court room trying to get out of something you paid to be a part of legaly!

 

Peace

[+Malamute]

It was the dispensary lobby; ya know, the ones that represent patients<sarc>,  that signed off on this bill thinking it would help them get Jones to pass HB 4209 dispensary bill.

 

 Be mad at the right people.

[Alphabob]

I think the right people to blame here are Jones and MSP, not the dispensaries. This topic has nothing to do with dispensaries even if they wanted to make a deal with Jones. They are not the head of the judicial committee; that is instead a former sheriff who has a grudge against medical marijuana patients. IMO it was Jones’ use of the Swift family, playing on sympathy, fear and misinformation that got this garbage passed.

 

The direct revenue is also not that much greater for police departments or courts in DUI cases versus possession. Most of the additional costs go to other parts of the prison system like parole and randomized testing. When you add all costs for both situations, you are looking at $5000-$10000 for a first DUI versus $3000-$6000 for possession or other MMJ charge (including attorney fees). Both are a small fortune that many patients cannot afford. Relative to what the court gets; it’s up to $1000 for use, $2000 for possession and typically $700 - $1200 for first time DUI.

 

What makes targeting marijuana a more favorable option are the federal grants that pay on performance. Just like the article posted above, they are incentivized to target marijuana for millions in additional funds. If you look at stats, police departments in Michigan are near the top for decreasing officer numbers over the last decade. They are already having to down-size with the billions pulled in from forfeitures and marijuana arrests, so this behavior is expected to get worse rather than better. Even if we legalize marijuana, they will still violate the laws and target people for federal funding. That is why I always see drunk drivers at night and statistics show that drunk drivers make on average 80 trips before being arrested.

[imiubu]

I was quite disgusted at the hearing as they allowed young Mr. Swift to blather on for WAY too long about his elderly parents being

killed by a DRUNK driver.  This is what was the supposed catalyst for he and his sister to take action, blah, blah, blah.

 

Cannabis is not alcohol dum azzes.

 

Some days....   sigh.

 

 

Gotta keep on fighting them 

[kindfolk]

The above grant is to arrest people like you!

 

You wont be calling moo poo when your sitting in a jail cell, and than a court room trying to get out of something you paid to be a part of legaly!

 

Peace

I'm wide awake and aware ;-)

I understand the passion of those who have been working so hard for the mmmj movement I have spent most of my life right there with them

I'm just not going to get myself all worked up and bang my head against the wall any longer...

I'm over it...

if I get thrown in jail for illegal transport I will have broken a law that I am 'well aware' of and will take the lumps that I have coming

until they start coming to our houses or our caregivers houses to 'make sure we are abiding by the MMMA'

I'm going to enjoy the current legal status and abide by the stipulations and try not to get my or anyone elses blood pressure up...

although I am concerned about the saliva testing bill and I will still be there protesting with those good American Michiganders whenever I can

KF

Edited June 24, 2016 by kindfolk

[Alphabob]

Another disturbing aspect is what happens if you test positive. You will automatically be charge with DUI and arrested. What does that mean for cardholders? Well your section 4 is no longer valid and you’re likely going to be charged with one or two possessions (possibly an illegal transport/synthetic THC). Furthermore, they get to use this bogus test as actual evidence in court of your intoxication. I’m sure that those paying attention will refuse a swab, which makes me wonder what will be next for them? Threats of being taken in for a blood test?

 

I also heard a rumor that the driver was on Soma’s, but who knows. The chances of this accident being primarily due to MJ are very slime. You gotta wonder what these idiots think happens when you smoke some bud. No, were not hallucinating or falling asleep driving down the road. It’s more like smoking a cigarette for medical patients, at worst maybe having a beer or two with really potent stuff. Unlike alcohol, people don’t really drive when they get too stoned. They do like to drive drunk and stoned off prescription drugs however; of course, this new law does nothing to stop that.

 

Just say no! (to bogus drug tests)

[t-pain]

the dui marijuana zero tolerance has been law for years btw...

[bobandtorey]

I would not comply and would not give saliva or give consent for a search

 

 

Sorry but that may not work for everyone 

 

I was in Lansing when this Bill  was inn committee speaking on behalf of us all  and all 3 of us were the only ones their  

[kindfolk]

Sorry but that may not work for everyone 

 

I was in Lansing when this Bill  was inn committee speaking on behalf of us all  and all 3 of us were the only ones their

 

Bob I am concerned with this bill as well

not because I drive 'stoned' or ever smoke while driving, but because I medicate daily and know how long thc stays in your system

although they do profile and I have long hair and a beard, I usually get singled out

I also have my cdl and if they take my license away for refusing to even do their 'stupid human tricks' (sobriety test)

it will effect my life in a big way

but I don't speed and I obey the traffic laws so I'm rarely stopped

I also have a dash cam as well as a hidden cam in my vehicle and would suggest that anyone with a smart phone turn the video or at least the audio recorder on and set it on their dash or console and record anytime they are stopped by LEO

I recorded a k9 officer tell the deputy sheriff that the dog din't signal and him searching the vehicle anyway

and all of the moo poo cops talk to each other about when they think nobody is listening

my laywer took it to the prosecutor and all charges were dropped immediately and the officer was reprimanded (what a joke I don't think it even went in his file)

but knowing that I had that tape had to have him squirming for awhile and I wasn't bothered by the Sheriffs department for the remainder of my time in that county

know your rights and do not let LEO intimidate you

let them know that they are being recorded

I'm curious as to wgat counties the program will be targeting

my first guess would be the most populated and the ones that I75 goes through

it's public information that they HAVE to share that info

KF

[phaquetoo]

Bob I am concerned with this bill as well

not because I drive 'stoned' or ever smoke while driving, but because I medicate daily and know how long thc stays in your system

although they do profile and I have long hair and a beard, I usually get singled out

I also have my cdl and if they take my license away for refusing to even do their 'stupid human tricks' (sobriety test)

it will effect my life in a big way

but I don't speed and I obey the traffic laws so I'm rarely stopped

I also have a dash cam as well as a hidden cam in my vehicle and would suggest that anyone with a smart phone turn the video or at least the audio recorder on and set it on their dash or console and record anytime they are stopped by LEO

I recorded a k9 officer tell the deputy sheriff that the dog din't signal and him searching the vehicle anyway

and all of the moo poo cops talk to each other about when they think nobody is listening

my laywer took it to the prosecutor and all charges were dropped immediately and the officer was reprimanded (what a joke I don't think it even went in his file)

but knowing that I had that tape had to have him squirming for awhile and I wasn't bothered by the Sheriffs department for the remainder of my time in that county

know your rights and do not let LEO intimidate you

let them know that they are being recorded

I'm curious as to wgat counties the program will be targeting

my first guess would be the most populated and the ones that I75 goes through

it's public information that they HAVE to share that info

KF

probably roscomon, crawford and otsego, they already are speed traps for tourist and have been for yrs, but I would start slowing down before west branch,,

 

come up on vacation and go home on probation is the motto up here!

 

Peace

[Alphabob]

Yea, it seems like we are getting to the point where we need dash cams like Russia has. I was driving home one night from caregivers and LEO had pulled someone over (two police vehicles and one civilian). It was at one of the worst exits on I-75 in terms of room and lighting, so beyond it being impossible to see with these aholes blasting ALL their lights at 2am there’s nothing I could have done to avoid a confrontation besides skipping my exit. They were positioned at the point where the road splits for the exit and a little bit afterwards, so they were not officially on the 'highway'. I ended up slowing down to 40ish and moved over as far as I could before having to move back for my exit. Well they decide to pull me over anyways with k-9 (drug expert) and told me exactly what I did; that I slowed down, moved over and then moved back (took my exit). Apparently, they did not read the entire move-over law, as it does not require you to move over on 1-lane roads like exit-ramps… no sht.

 

So I knew getting the video would have my entire case dropped before bringing up the MMMA, but they would not release this part of it (and they also muted the audio or turned off the mics several times in the released DVD). My attorney couldn’t really explain what happened, but I knew both vehicles had their cameras on while they were sitting there dealing with the other person as I drove by (both their lights were on). I told my attorney that if they didn’t drop all the charges I’m going to continue to request the video through FOIA until I get it. They dropped all charges the next court date after my attorney talked to the prosecutor, probably cause I was planning to sue them for false arrest if I ever got my hands on that footage. So don't think anyone is invincible from being pulled over. I have a 100% clean record, 0 points and they still targeted me.

 

But refusing the saliva test should only be a civil infraction; for commercial drivers on the job it was a misdemeanor but i think they lowered that. If I'm ever asked I'll be saying the following: "Is that saliva test backed by any standards?", "No", "Well then no, I'm not going to allow you to fabricate false evidence against me".

Edited June 25, 2016 by Alphabob

[kindfolk]

probably roscomon, crawford and otsego, they already are speed traps for tourist and have been for yrs, but I would start slowing down before west branch,,

 

come up on vacation and go home on probation is the motto up here!

 

Peace

'back in the day' a buddy and I came up from Ohio to meet his folks in Sault Ste. Marie for a fishing trip

he was pulled over for speeding (d umbass) and the state jackboot told us that if we paid him cash on the spot that he would only write us up for not wearing seatbelts (even though we were wearing them) that he wouldn't give us a speeding ticket that he said "...would require us to come back foor a court hearing"

having an oz in the car, we handed over around $300 in cash

there was no ticket written and he told us to "enjoy our fishing trip"

just another extortion sockcucking pig

but a friend of mines dad (an olschool toker) gave us some solid advice in high school

he said,"don't break the law when you're breaking the law"

some of the best advice I've ever been given and I try to share it with everyone I know

KF

Edited June 26, 2016 by kindfolk

[Alphabob]

Well the bill was signed so it will be law soon.

 

Anyone know what order these drug experts run through the 12-step DRE protocol? More specifically, what usually comes first; the field sobriety tests or the request for a preliminary breathalyzer. It seems that they want to mimic the preliminary breathalyzer protocol with these saliva tests so it would be good to know their strategies in detail.

 

http://www.decp.org/experts/12steps.htm

 

I'm hoping to work on a guide for medical marijuana patients dealing with this law in the selected counties. We could really bend the situation over to our side since refusing is only a civil infraction (not to be confused with the tests they ask if you are arrested for OWI/DUI, which are much more severe). By that I mean wasting as much court resources and time as possible until they stop harassing medical marijuana patients.

 

1. Refuse the saliva test

2. Ask for an informal hearing for the civil infraction

3. Submit a motion to dismiss the infraction based upon MMMA and People v Koon.

4. If they rule against you motion for a formal hearing.

5. If you lose again appeal the decision to circuit court.

 

And if you lose after that, your not facing the consequences of a misdemeanor or felony. Just tens of thousands of dollars blown by the city, county or state.