Pros & Cons: Soil Vs. Hydro?

[imiubu]

I tried hydroton in my soil mix last year and it cost me almost $300 in vet bills as my little dog decided to eat a few and became obstructed.

I quickly removed it from my soil and my house.  I still am finding those little balls in the oddest of places though.

As I understand it, the hydroton absorbs the salts and is why my dog may have been 'licking' them and ended up ingesting some.

So.. a warning to those w/ small animals or children ... maybe?

[Alleyenoisdope]

Ionic is a simple to use one jug product in grow and two in bloom (bloom,boost)..............HJ

 

I like simple. But when you say one jug, would this really be the only nutrient I added to my water?? Is it generally accompanied by any other products? Ionic sounds like a winner!!

[Nix]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread, but here are my two cents. 

 

DWC is very popular here especially when bubblegrower was on this site. It's easy and the yields are huge. I would recommend this method to a new grower, but with some caveats. Firstly, an essential ingredient is compost tea. At some point you are going to get hit with cyanobacteria. It will appear as a snotty slime in your res and on your roots. It will suffocate and kill your babies. Prevention is the best medicine and beneficial bacteria will do that for you. The bennies will also help your roots absorb nutes and make for an all together healthier plant. You can find instructions on how to make it here. 

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38275-tutorial-kill-hydro-slime-w-compost-tea/

 

Do not use store bought compost tea as it can CAUSE cyanobacteria. You need a tea formulated for hydro. I never grow without it. 

 

Don't use any additives either. Just stick to a two part lucas formula and nothing else except pH down. And if you use Advanced Nutrients, you don't even have to pH. I'm not a big fan of Ionic nutes personally. 

 

Here is a pic of my hybrid room featuring (from left to right) plants grown in organic soil, an aeroponic chamber, and deep water culture.

 

 

The soil plants (greenhouse leftovers) were started as clones a month before the aero plants. You can see the difference. The hydro plants, even though cut from the mothers a full month later, have exploded past the soil plants. Their chamber is about six inches higher than the soil pots and are getting more light as the 1000W bulb moves over them twice on the light mover. But still it's clear that aeroponics is the most productive growing method. The DWC plants are also growing faster than the soil, but still not as fast as the aeroponic clones. 

 

Now about soil advantages. I have not tasted all of these strains, yet I can all but guarantee that the organic soil plants will taste and smell the best out of all three. Just from experience I know they will. There really is a difference. That said, the high is exactly the same so I am willing to take faster growth at the expense of flavor. This is where patient preference comes into play. My advice to you would be to grow every way you have time for and see what method you like. I do all three, but in the end speed and yield is what matters most to me so my homemade aeroponic chamber is what I grow with indoors most often. In the greenhouse, it's organic soil all the way as the plants are not going to ripen until October no matter what.

 

Best of luck!

Edited July 18, 2016 by Nix

[Alleyenoisdope]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread, but here are my two cents.

 

DWC is very popular here especially when bubblegrower was on this site. It's easy and the yields are huge. I would recommend this method to a new grower, but with some caveats. Firstly, an essential ingredient is compost tea. At some point you are going to get hit with cyanobacteria. It will appear as a snotty slime in your res and on your roots. It will suffocate and kill your babies. Prevention is the best medicine and beneficial bacteria will do that for you. The bennies will also help your roots absorb nutes and make for an all together healthier plant. You can find instructions on how to make it here.

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38275-tutorial-kill-hydro-slime-w-compost-tea/

 

Do not use store bought compost tea as it can CAUSE cyanobacteria. You need a tea formulated for hydro. I never grow without it.

 

Don't use any additives either. Just stick to a two part lucas formula and nothing else except pH down. And if you use Advanced Nutrients, you don't even have to pH. I'm not a big fan of Ionic nutes personally.

 

Here is a pic of my hybrid room featuring (from left to right) plants grown in organic soil, an aeroponic chamber, and deep water culture.

 

The soil plants (greenhouse leftovers) were started as clones a month before the aero plants. You can see the difference. The hydro plants, even though cut from the mothers a full month later, have exploded past the soil plants. Their chamber is about six inches higher than the soil pots and are getting more light as the 1000W bulb moves over them twice on the light mover. But still it's clear that aeroponics is the most productive growing method. The DWC plants are also growing faster than the soil, but still not as fast as the aeroponic clones.

 

Now about soil advantages. I have not tasted all of these strains, yet I can all but guarantee that the organic soil plants will taste and smell the best out of all three. Just from experience I know they will. There really is a difference. That said, the high is exactly the same so I am willing to take faster growth at the expense of flavor. This is where patient preference comes into play. My advice to you would be to grow every way you have time for and see what method you like. I do all three, but in the end speed and yield is what matters most to me so my homemade aeroponic chamber is what I grow with indoors most often. In the greenhouse, it's organic soil all the way as the plants are not going to ripen until October no matter what.

 

Best of luck!

Much appreciated tips, Nix. I actually was just doing some much needed research on Advance Nutrients. Seems to be the most hassle-free way to go. Based upon the price, I think I may start there and try Canna after. Thanks again. Edited July 22, 2016 by Alleyenoisdope

[pergamum362]

Much appreciated tips, Nix. I actually was just doing some much needed research on Advance Nutrients. Seems to be the most hassle-free way to go. Based upon the price, I think I may start there and try Canna after. Thanks again.

i have used advance for years now, started before ph perfect was a thing. They have always worked out nice, but recently acquired more than a few sample boxes of heavy 16. I am mid way though a run with them, and must say i am impressed, so much so im am surely going to swap at least a few advanced products for heavy 16, if not the whole line up. They also use a form of ph free tech in the nutrients.

[pergamum362]

And are far more concentrated, with between 1-2 ml/gallon of everything except the base nutrients and a high point week 5-6 at 4ml/gal on two addiditives. If running the full line of advance, the initial prices are close but heavy will last nearly double the cycles of advanced.

[trichcycler]

I tried hydroton in my soil mix last year and it cost me almost $300 in vet bills as my little dog decided to eat a few and became obstructed.

I quickly removed it from my soil and my house.  I still am finding those little balls in the oddest of places though.

As I understand it, the hydroton absorbs the salts and is why my dog may have been 'licking' them and ended up ingesting some.

So.. a warning to those w/ small animals or children ... maybe?

 

I havent used these balls in a few years but......they are scattered in most areas of my yard and gardens outdoors. I never gave it a thought, my dogs didnt care about them. Until last week while watering some fresh chicken crap into my freshly cut lawn.....and whaddya know, I see two turds washed away to reveal a ball each. seems chickens might gobble them too.

[Alleyenoisdope]

And are far more concentrated, with between 1-2 ml/gallon of everything except the base nutrients and a high point week 5-6 at 4ml/gal on two addiditives. If running the full line of advance, the initial prices are close but heavy will last nearly double the cycles of advanced.

 

Sounds like a pretty user friendly line. Have you tried their Prime or Roots additives? 

[pergamum362]

Sounds like a pretty user friendly line. Have you tried their Prime or Roots additives?

 

the sample boxes i got came with the full line except the base. I had to buy the base. I swapped h&g roots excel for there roots on this latest clone run and results are on par with it. Just finishing up some chocolate chunks run with it, some with advanced and sum running split. They all look great lol.

[trichcycler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokinin

 

Its lovely how some producers hide PGR's in their mixes. Cloning gel for instance will super charge roots on a vegging/dirt/plant/hydro/clone. I know growers who spray their plants with a mix of cloning gel for "excellurated" growth. You can check the info by adding a drop of cloning gel to visible roots in a clone cup. a few days later and bam! 

using traditional cloning gel negates an organic approach. Growth regulators are also used in traditional plant culturing.

growers can  make their own willow water. Apply this as a foliar feed to vegging plants, a root stimulant(wicked growth if thats whats desired) and even just a watering here and there. Willow water recipe's are online, pick one that uses low heat to process. Use new growth as opposed to old. No need to overthink it, it works even if you do it "wrong"  guess I'll admit I have 55 gallons of chipper willow composting right now!

I also maintain dozens of a hybrid willow/bamboo variety cross. they grow 6 feet a year if wet and look awesome. Like an upside down willow tree. never composted that one though, but it does clone easily, like a stab into clean dirt voila!

Edited July 26, 2016 by grassmatch

[pergamum362]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokinin

 

Its lovely how some producers hide PGR's in their mixes. Cloning gel for instance will super charge roots on a vegging/dirt/plant/hydro/clone. I know growers who spray their plants with a mix of cloning gel for "excellurated" growth. You can check the info by adding a drop of cloning gel to visible roots in a clone cup. a few days later and bam! 

using traditional cloning gel negates an organic approach. Growth regulators are also used in traditional plant culturing.

growers can  make their own willow water. Apply this as a foliar feed to vegging plants, a root stimulant(wicked growth if thats whats desired) and even just a watering here and there. Willow water recipe's are online, pick one that uses low heat to process. Use new growth as opposed to old. No need to overthink it, it works even if you do it "wrong"  guess I'll admit I have 55 gallons of chipper willow composting right now!

I also maintain dozens of a hybrid willow/bamboo variety cross. they grow 6 feet a year if wet and look awesome. Like an upside down willow tree. never composted that one though, but it does clone easily, like a stab into clean dirt voila!

i dont see how this is relevant.

[pergamum362]

I didnt use the heavy flowering base, still running advanced sensi, because i still have aboit two gallons of it.

[trichcycler]

i dont see how this is relevant.

 

soil vs hydro and the quest for "organic" growing principals in the medical garden.

its a tall order affecting both soil and hydro growers running organics...., with poison water hoses, toxic recycled depot buckets, china plastic watering lines, chelating chems, etc

and of course, the PGR's that are hidden in innocent root stimulates and cloning gels-auxins, cytokine, IAA etc.

 

no biggy for growers not on an organic run, but plagues the rest of us.

[Alleyenoisdope]

the sample boxes i got came with the full line except the base. I had to buy the base. I swapped h&g roots excel for there roots on this latest clone run and results are on par with it. Just finishing up some chocolate chunks run with it, some with advanced and sum running split. They all look great lol.

 

Good to know. I may have to add Heavy to my list of products I would like to try. Where or how does one procure nute samples? I'm guessing since it was a sample you got it for free? 

[pergamum362]

Good to know. I may have to add Heavy to my list of products I would like to try. Where or how does one procure nute samples? I'm guessing since it was a sample you got it for free?

 

yes, i got several boxes for free by chatting up the reps. They had a customer appreciation day at one of my local stores, they do it every year and have certain reps come out and promote thier products, along with a wopping 25 percent off nearly everything in store on top of regular discounts(meaning i got nearly a 50 percent discount). Only things not included are small things that normally cost under 20 dollars. I try to buy most of the years supplies on this day, or any upgrades/new gear as well.

 

You can try emailing there support or sales departments, explain your situation..or maybe even lie and say you run advanced. Lol, the reps really didnt like advanced, probably because they seem to be there main competion among growers and i attribute that to part of the reason i got so much.

Edited July 29, 2016 by pergamum362

[pergamum362]

soil vs hydro and the quest for "organic" growing principals in the medical garden.

its a tall order affecting both soil and hydro growers running organics...., with poison water hoses, toxic recycled depot buckets, china plastic watering lines, chelating chems, etc

and of course, the PGR's that are hidden in innocent root stimulates and cloning gels-auxins, cytokine, IAA etc.

 

no biggy for growers not on an organic run, but plagues the rest of us.

yup, this guy is no where near organic, and wouldnt even attempt to do organic in hydro setups, especially not with drippers.

[pergamum362]

yup, this guy is no where near organic, and wouldnt even attempt to do organic in hydro setups, especially not with drippers.

that being said, many people mistake my meds for being organic.

[Restorium2]

that being said, many people mistake my meds for being organic.

Oh man, that makes me laugh. The differences between well grown cannabis and a mistake filled swag grow are far greater than the differences between a grow deemed organic and one not.

I get a kick out of folks that think that the difference between good cannabis and bad is whether it was grown with chemical salt fertilizer or not.

I know for a fact that a consumer would throw rocks at organic if it turned out to be swag, and bow down and express their gratitude for an expertly grown hydro from an excellent strain. That is, AFTER they learn about the misconceptions about the whole Organic Orgasmic BS designed to pump up sales by the organic bragger. It's really a scam as we see Organic touted today. I find that cleanliness and truthfulness about a grow is far more important than an organic label. But this is America, the land of the free and the home of the big advertisement of mo better and me me me. I would be very skeptical about anything touted as organic if you don't know the grow. Like the Taliban leader said when asked about why he lied about casualties, he simply said, "Why not?" (with an evil grin)

Edited July 29, 2016 by Restorium2

[pergamum362]

Oh man, that makes me laugh. The differences between well grown cannabis and a mistake filled swag grow are far greater than the differences between a grow deemed organic and one not.

I get a kick out of folks that think that the difference between good cannabis and bad is whether it was grown with chemical salt fertilizer or not.

I know for a fact that a consumer would throw rocks at organic if it turned out to be swag, and bow down and express their gratitude for an expertly grown hydro from an excellent strain. That is, AFTER they learn about the misconceptions about the whole Organic Orgasmic BS designed to pump up sales by the organic bragger. It's really a scam as we see Organic touted today. I find that cleanliness and truthfulness about a grow is far more important than an organic label. But this is America, the land of the free and the home of the big advertisement of mo better and me me me. I would be very skeptical about anything touted as organic if you don't know the grow. Like the Taliban leader said when asked about why he lied about casualties, he simply said, "Why not?" (with an evil grin)

yup, feel pretty much the same. Good is good, bad is bad...it really is that simple.

[Restorium2]

yup, feel pretty much the same. Good is good, bad is bad...it really is that simple.

And who is to say how something actually was grown unless you were there 24/7? I say the proof has to be in the pudding, not the story/hype about the pudding.

[+Malamute]

I would say the best label to be used would be

 

"Malamute Approved Quality"

 

Now that would draw consumers. Heh.

[Alleyenoisdope]

yes, i got several boxes for free by chatting up the reps. They had a customer appreciation day at one of my local stores, they do it every year and have certain reps come out and promote thier products, along with a wopping 25 percent off nearly everything in store on top of regular discounts(meaning i got nearly a 50 percent discount). Only things not included are small things that normally cost under 20 dollars. I try to buy most of the years supplies on this day, or any upgrades/new gear as well.

 

You can try emailing there support or sales departments, explain your situation..or maybe even lie and say you run advanced. Lol, the reps really didnt like advanced, probably because they seem to be there main competion among growers and i attribute that to part of the reason i got so much.

 

Gotcha. Thanks again for the free sample know how.

[Alleyenoisdope]

Oh man, that makes me laugh. The differences between well grown cannabis and a mistake filled swag grow are far greater than the differences between a grow deemed organic and one not.

I get a kick out of folks that think that the difference between good cannabis and bad is whether it was grown with chemical salt fertilizer or not.

I know for a fact that a consumer would throw rocks at organic if it turned out to be swag, and bow down and express their gratitude for an expertly grown hydro from an excellent strain. That is, AFTER they learn about the misconceptions about the whole Organic Orgasmic BS designed to pump up sales by the organic bragger. It's really a scam as we see Organic touted today. I find that cleanliness and truthfulness about a grow is far more important than an organic label. But this is America, the land of the free and the home of the big advertisement of mo better and me me me. I would be very skeptical about anything touted as organic if you don't know the grow. Like the Taliban leader said when asked about why he lied about casualties, he simply said, "Why not?" (with an evil grin)

 

I must concur. If growing quality cannabis was as simple as...organic = good...chemical salt = bad...then there wouldn't be such an abundance of green garbage being produced. While I'm still learning the in's and out's of the whole growing process, I am far from naive and am no stranger to propaganda for profit schemes. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Alleyenoisdope

[pic book]

I think the stress level of growing hydro isnt worth the hassle..With soil growing you don't have to worry as much about power failures....My system was a continuous flow that when power when out my girls went limp within 2-3 hours...

I've been able to reduce stress by:

(1)  running redundant pumps, each $99 from Harbor Freight with a two-year [name and phone number only 2-year free exchange extended warranty] included.  This allows one to fail and the system to continue to pump.

(2)  I have two battery back-up systems for sump pumps (both my pumps are sump pumps) from home depot, each $220, for when power goes out, good to power both pumps for 18 hours of power outage, so i have it set to auto back up when both pumps quit. (activated by the flow sensor.

(3)  I paid to get continual monitoring sent to my phone.  i paid a hydro tech guy who ads on cl. It cost $300 to have sensors for ph, temp, ec and ppm as well as flow; that continuously report to my phone.  Lack of flow sounds an alarm on my phone and activates battery backup for one pump.  (My hydro is 24-hour flow).

(4)  This continuous reporting occurs from a grow located not where i live, and that is the biggest de-stressor of all.  Nothing (but fingerprints) refer to my residence.

[pic book]

According to the FSA's findings, organic vegetables contain 53.6 per cent more betacarotene - which helps combat cancer and heart disease - than non-organic ones.

Similarly, organic food has 11.3 per cent more zinc, 38.4 per cent more flavonoids and 12.7 per cent more proteins.

In addition, an in-depth study by Newcastle University, far deeper than the one conducted by the FSA, has shown that organic produce contains 40 per cent more antioxidants than non-organic foods.

 

THIS POST (AT HUGE LENGTH)  STATES CHEMICAL (synthetic) NUTES ARE BAD IN BOTH SOIL AND WATER GROWING.  THE OP ASKED FOR ADVANTAGES/DISADVANTAGES OF SOIL VS HYDRO.   THIS POST IS IRRELEVANT to the topic AS ORGANIC NUTES ARE AVAIL FOR BOTH SOIL AND HYDRO!    In hydro a rez temp of 61f allows the use of [sf organics cold hydrolyzed fish] without any odor, while for soil there are 100s of organic nutes to choose from.

Edited July 30, 2016 by pic book