Questions About Enclosure

[NotAStoner]

The attached file is a diagram of an enclosure that I will be constructing soon, and there seems to be a lack of clear guidelines instructing the type of fencing needed to enclose a grow. I was wondering if someone who is more educated than me on this topic could point out any flaws with my enclosure and maybe instruct me on what I would need to do to make it legal?

 

-Edit-

The road is on the same side of the diagram as the barn is.

Edited July 2, 2016 by NotAStoner

[t-pain]

plants cant be seen from the road, or adjacent properties.

 

you need a roof/top on it (wasnt clear from the diagram). the top can be chain link, chicken wire, hardware cloth. anything so a cop cant reach over and grab a plant. $200 in fencing is cheaper than $5000 lawyer.

 

cops want to not be able to reach over a fence and grab anything. or punch thru plastic. it has to be some kind of material that takes tools to cut into. also cops try to lift it off the ground, so make sure its secured into the ground with cement or drilled poles etc.

 

if by electric high tensile wire, like a cattle fence that has huge gaps in it... i wouldnt recommend that.

chain link dog kennel cage type thing on all sides except the ground. or greenhouse. or carport or something.

 

i agree, in a perfect world, electric fencing would be fine. but you can see the law that defined outdoor grow is written poorly by an idiot legislator. (it was not part of the original mmma as passed by voters).

[t-pain]

i'll try to post some things that look good to me. i am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

 

i would add chicken wire, the cattle wire is good for support, but chicken wire to keep hands out. the white stuff blocks visibility , but lets water , air and sunshine in . i think the lightest row cover / "insect barrier" allows 90% sunlight in.

 

http://www.ericsprojects.com/?page_id=228

 

]

 

 

[beourbud]

en·close

inˈklōz,enˈklōz/

verb

past tense: enclosed; past participle: enclosed

1.

surround or close off on all sides.

"the entire estate was enclosed with walls"

synonyms: surround, circle, ring, girdle, encompass, encircle

 

Outdoor;

1

: of or relating to the outdoors

2

a : performed outdoors <outdoor sports>

b : outdoorsy <an outdoor couple>

3

: not enclosed : having no roof <an outdoor restaurant>

 

Having No Roof/Top

 

Who the phuc cares what Leo wants, the law was written to help patients grow their own meds, Show me a case where the only charge is no top.

 

Outdoors is the future, get over it.

[NotAStoner]

Thank you for all of the good advise. The electric fence is 8 feet tall and has a high tensile wire every 6 inches, would that be enough or should i look into stringing more wire or putting up chicken wire?

 

Also I seem to have forgotten a few details in my original post, because the roofing material that i planning is nylon string with steel wiring braided into it, since it is light weight and also conductive, it could span the distance of my grow as well as keep it legal.

 

I guess I should also point out that the grow enclosure is 48 feet by 72 feet. So it has enough room to easily sustain 72 plants.

Edited July 2, 2016 by NotAStoner

[NotAStoner]

Also, considering the fence is 8 feet tall, does it really need a roof? Because I don't think anyone could reach over that.

 

One more thing, does the fence need to keep arms and hands out, or just keep them away from the plants? What if I placed all of the plants so if they were fully grown that they could not be reached, because although someone could fit their arm through, they could technically not reach the plant?

Edited July 2, 2016 by NotAStoner

[t-pain]

well, no one has tested the roof/top in court.

 

do you want to be the first?

 

joel was in court for 6 years for taking his plant outside in his fenced backyard to spray for mites.

 

call a medical marijuana lawyer for free advice. can't hurt to call.

[Hydraulic Jack]

You don't need to grow 72 plants outdoors....You will have medicine coming out your ears~!.....HJ

[beourbud]

well, no one has tested the roof/top in court.

do you want to be the first?

joel was in court for 6 years for taking his plant outside in his fenced backyard to spray for mites.

call a medical marijuana lawyer for free advice. can't hurt to call.

So why are you giving legal advise as if there was case law?

 

You do not seem as concerned about the illegal dabs transfers at the cup. What advise would you give us on that?

Do you think the cops are ok with that?

 

It's not a thing in many areas, why should it be in yours. We ALl voted for the law across the state, we should All benefit from it no matter what your zip code

 

Long Live the Outdoor Grow

Edited July 2, 2016 by beourbud

[NotAStoner]

You don't need to grow 72 plants outdoors....You will have medicine coming out your ears~!.....HJ

8 of them stay in the flower house

[NotAStoner]

So if the plants are not withing arms reach but they can still feasibly reach into the enclosure, would it be legal?

[t-pain]

So why are you giving legal advise as if there was case law?

you know what, i was wrong earlier. read the coa opinion on people v king for outdoor grow case law. king spent 5 years in court for his no-top grow as well.

 

NotAStoner, read this pdf:

 

http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov:81/opinions/final/coa/20110203_c294682_45_21o-294682-final.pdf

 

As noted, the phrase “enclosed, locked facility” is defined by the MMMA to mean “a

closet, room, or other enclosed area equipped with locks or other security devices . . . .” MCL

333.26423©. As described earlier, defendant grew several marijuana plants in his backyard,

within a chain-link dog kennel that was only partially covered on the sides with black plastic.

The kennel had a lock on the chain-link door, but had no fencing or other material over the top,

and it could be lifted off the ground. Defendant maintains that the kennel constitutes an

“enclosed area” within the definition of “enclosed, locked facility” and, therefore, that he

complied with the statute. The trial court simply based its interpretation of “other enclosed area”

 

on the definition of “enclose” in Black’s Law Dictionary and concluded, without analysis, that

the kennel complied with this definition. 3

The trial court’s interpretation and application of the phrase “enclosed, locked facility” is

contrary to settled rules of statutory construction. The statutory reference to “other enclosed

area” within the definition of “enclosed, locked facility” is a general phrase that follows the

words “closet” and “room,” both of which have specific, limited meanings and which have the

common characteristic of being stationary and closed on all sides. It would frustrate the intent of

the MMMA to read the definition of “enclosed, locked facility” as meaning something akin to a

moveable fence simply on the basis of a dictionary definition when the enumerated examples

that precede “other enclosed area” suggest a much greater level of protected confinement.

Our courts must give effect to the language in the statute and elucidate the intent of the

voters by considering not only the words themselves, but their placement and purpose in the

statutory scheme. To that end, it is appropriate here to apply the doctrine of statutory

construction ejusdem generis, which provides that “the scope of a broad general term following a

series of items is construed as including ‘things of the same kind, class, character, or nature as

those specifically enumerated . . . .’” People v Thomas, 263 Mich App 70, 76; 687 NW2d 598

(2004), quoting Weakland v Toledo Engineering Co, Inc, 467 Mich 344, 349; 656 NW2d 175

(2003), and Huggett v Dep’t of Natural Resources, 464 Mich 711, 718-719; 629 NW2d 915

(2001). Under the doctrine, “other enclosed area” would, thus, be limited to things of the same

kind or character as a closet or room. An open, moveable, chain-link kennel is not of the same

kind or character as a closet or room. We further observe that the examples given in the

statutory definition are followed by the additional requirement that the closet, room, or other

enclosed area be equipped with locks or other security devices that permit access only by the

registered caregiver or qualifying patient. In context, the clear purpose of specifying that the

marijuana be kept within a secure facility is to ensure that it is inaccessible to anyone other than

a licensed grower or a qualifying patient, as defined in the MMMA, for the limited purpose set

forth in the MMMA. Moreover, these provisions are obviously meant to prevent access by the

general public and, especially, juveniles. This reading of the MMMA is consistent with its

limited protections for a narrowly defined group of medical users of a controlled substance, the

general cultivation and use of which remains illegal under both state and federal law. Reading

the statute broadly as the trial court did to permit marijuana to be kept in the type of space used

by defendant would, quite simply, undermine the plain language and purpose of the statutory

provisions.

 

We further hold that although the plants inside defendant’s home were kept in a closet,

which is the type of enclosure specifically enumerated in the statute, it is undisputed that there

was no lock on the closet door. The statute explicitly states that the enclosed area itself must

have a lock or other security device to prevent access by anyone other than the person licensed to grow marijuana under the MMMA. An unlocked closet would permit access by anyone else

within the home, and it appears that the home itself was not secured by locks on all of the doors.

The trial court’s conclusion that defendant acted as a “security device” for the marijuana growing

inside his home is pure sophistry and belied by defense counsel’s unsurprising admission at oral

argument in this Court that, at times, defendant left the property, thus leaving the marijuana

without a “security device” and accessible to someone other than defendant as the registered

patient.

 

3 Moreover, we observe that the trial court cited a definition that specifies enclosure on all sides,

but nonetheless concluded that the open-top kennel satisfies the definition.

if you want to argue statuatory construction, beourbud, feel free. but you must quote the case law to back up your assertions.

 

the msc only reversed this opinion in the section 4 requirements put in section 8. they did not hear the enclosed arguements, so the coa case law stands.

[NotAStoner]

Thank you for that PDF it has been very helpful

[dutchfarm]

Thank you for all of the good advise. The electric fence is 8 feet tall and has a high tensile wire every 6 inches, would that be enough or should i look into stringing more wire or putting up chicken wire?

 

Also I seem to have forgotten a few details in my original post, because the roofing material that i planning is nylon string with steel wiring braided into it, since it is light weight and also conductive, it could span the distance of my grow as well as keep it legal.

 

I guess I should also point out that the grow enclosure is 48 feet by 72 feet. So it has enough room to easily sustain 72 plants.

I have two grows, each one is 24 feet x 32 feet, I grow 24 plants in each one and there is just enough room for the 48 plants. I do not think you would want to plant 72 of them in that size enclosure. I believe you will run into mold issues in the fall when the humidity levels rise, you may not have enough air circulation, unless you run fans, but wish you  the best !!

                                    Farmer Brown

[phaquetoo]

en·close

inˈklōz,enˈklōz/

verb

past tense: enclosed; past participle: enclosed

1.

surround or close off on all sides.

"the entire estate was enclosed with walls"

synonyms: surround, circle, ring, girdle, encompass, encircle

 

Outdoor;

1

: of or relating to the outdoors

2

a : performed outdoors <outdoor sports>

b : outdoorsy <an outdoor couple>

3

: not enclosed : having no roof <an outdoor restaurant>

 

Having No Roof/Top

 

Who the phuc cares what Leo wants, the law was written to help patients grow their own meds, Show me a case where the only charge is no top.

 

Outdoors is the future, get over it.

I hope you dont become the first case to be prosecuted for no top/roof!

 

On the bright side I do like topless bars and restruants! lol  

 

Peace

[+Malamute]

Actually the case law doesn't fully stand because it was a ruling based on the original law, not the amended outdoor grow language that was added.

[t-pain]

Actually the case law doesn't fully stand because it was a ruling based on the original law, not the amended outdoor grow language that was added.

sure, i'll give you that.

 

but that opinion gives guidance on how the COA will rule on the issue again, in the future.

 

a couple hundred dollars in chicken wire is less than what it costs for a lawyer for 5 years to take the case all the way to the supreme court and back...

 

after you are raided, after the police seize your plants.

 

and then what? i havent seen a single patient/caregiver reap any damages out of the govt so far. not even atty fees.

[+Malamute]

Agreed.  That is why I said "doesn't fully stand". 

 

But I am guessing most of it stands and will stand.

[NotAStoner]

I have two grows, each one is 24 feet x 32 feet, I grow 24 plants in each one and there is just enough room for the 48 plants. I do not think you would want to plant 72 of them in that size enclosure. I believe you will run into mold issues in the fall when the humidity levels rise, you may not have enough air circulation, unless you run fans, but wish you  the best !!

                                    Farmer Brown

THat is why I want to use the high tensile electric, it allows the wind to blow through the leaves of the plants, I also use drip line irrigation so that helps as well.

[NotAStoner]

If state police show up and inspect my fence and is not up to the regulations, will I immediately be prosecuted, or will they allow me time to improve the enclosure?

[+Malamute]

50/50

[williams2311]

If state police show up and inspect my fence and is not up to the regulations, will I immediately be prosecuted, or will they allow me time to improve the enclosure?

Id say if the cash is available i recommend going up and beyond what you "think" is within our screwed up law better safe then sorry

[NotAStoner]

50/50

Yikes.

[dutchfarm]

THat is why I want to use the high tensile electric, it allows the wind to blow through the leaves of the plants, I also use drip line irrigation so that helps as well.

I used chicken wire( not sure high tensile electric will pass an inspection by the po-po) and have pretty decent air flow, the potential problem I see is that your plants are going to be a bit crowded( too close together) I have four plants across the 24 foot side and 6 plants across the 32 foot side( 4 rows of 6 plants) and in after thought wish I had gone a bit larger. I do not have drip irrigation, but in most years there is plenty of rain, not so much this year for us, have had to water by hand twice now. In the fall of the year,here, the humidity goes up quite a bit, the plants hold the moisture more readily and do not dry out as quickly in the wind, why I feel that you could run into problems at the end of the season, just my 2 cents worth.

                                          Farmer Brown

[phaquetoo]

If state police show up and inspect my fence and is not up to the regulations, will I immediately be prosecuted, or will they allow me time to improve the enclosure?

If no one knows about your grow but you and yours,,,,,you dont have to worry about po po!

 

Peace

 

 

p.s if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle! 

Edited July 4, 2016 by phaquetoo