Absorbing Phyto-Cannabinoids

[+washtenaut]

Recently I started treating an odd skin bump on my scalp with cannabis oil.  Over the course of a few weeks the bump grew up and out of my scalp.  Eventually it fell off.  I believe it was some type of skin cancer that I no longer have...at least in that spot.  Rather than discuss skin cancer in this thread however, I have been wondering about the priority given to different organs with respect to cannabinoid absorption. 

 

For many years I had been a recreational user and for the last 5 years or so have been using concentrates orally for pain problems.  While I probably only use 1/20 of a milliliter of oil per day, it is still a fairly steady and strong dose.  I have added plant based cannabinoids to my bloodstream for decades, yet still apparently formed the skin cancer on my scalp.  The skin must not have been getting many of the cannabinoids I was taking.

 

OK, sorry for the long lead in but.....what I am wondering is what is the order of absorption when ingested and what differences are there due to ingestion manner?  Does the brain get first crack at cannabinoids in the bloodstream or do the lungs get first crack with smoking and the stomach with eating?  The liver apparently has a lot of receptors too.  Where is it in the pecking order?

 

Why care about this?  Well, off the top, it seems treating skin cancers directly with a strong cannabis based topical is the best way to get medicine to them.

 

Second, I am curious whether substances taken in conjunction with cannabis treatment could help to shepherd the cannabinoids to the organ that has, say cancer.  If it turns out that the brain has top priority, might there be a way to block brain absorption, so that the bulk of the medicine gets downstream to say, the liver?

[trichcycler]

some terpenoids/flavanoids may assist in breaking the blood brain barrier, like d-limonene. the biblical recipe for cannabis anointing oil includes some very effective blood brain barrier breakers I think. would take a pharma mind to target a specific organ with the dose I believe. Eating cannabis oil with fat seems to bring on effects quicker than without the fats, maybe related, liver, etc. I wonder of grapefruit juice/cannabis dosing often. I know what it supposedly does with some rx......

 

glad the bump is gone!

[Norby]

I know that they have made vaginal suppositories for women to use for cramps.  There was another Aussie woman who used anal suppositories for cancer because she couldn't take the high dosage going thru her liver.  She felt some effects but didn't get as hi as taking it orally.  GM has been talking about DMSO delivery methods for topicals, that not only delivers things past the skin but also into the cells . And there is also talk of injecting oil strait into tumors.

As for ingestion methods tinctures under the tongue go strait into the bloodstream while swallowed meds go thru the digestion process and liver which converts THC to 11 hydroxyTHC making it more potent.  Can't think of any other methods at the moment.

[zachw]

What you are interested in is called pharmacokinetics along with bioavailability. There is no "pecking order" whereby the brain uses what it wants and then it goes to another organ. Smoking is more bioavailable than mucosal absorption which is more than oral ingestion. Less than 1% goes to the brain, most is stored in fatty tissues & spleen.

 

Skin cancer is treated locally with mohs, radiation, and topicals. I would imagine the same holds true with cannabis and that any effective treatment for skin cancer would also be topical, not oral.

[WET]

And there is also talk of injecting oil strait into tumors.

Manuel Guzman and his team did this in Spain about 10 years ago. They applied it straight to glioblastomas. Proven safe but only saw reaction in 2 out of 9 patients. Interesting thread!

 

Wet

[imiubu]

Interesting thread. 

 

Glad your bump is gone!

[bax]

Unfortunately there is little research on where thc and cannabinoids concentrate in the body.

 

We know , anecdotally, that thc sticks in fat cells. It can take a long time to get thc out of the body via urine.

 

We know that it activates a lot of parts of the body when ingested, intestines, kidneys, possibly prostate, brain, bloodstream...

 

I think the problem with skin is that its not high on the list of blood pumping.

 

When smoking, lets say you have 20% thc and you roll a 1 gram joint. That means in your 1 gram joint there is only a maximum of 200mg of thc.

 

That 200mg hits the lungs, blood, brain.

 

I dont know what concentration your oil is, but usually its 50-90% THC. So 1 gram of oil would be roughly 500-900mg of THC. applied topically, there is an absorption rate.

 

 

 

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/cannabis-pdq

 

When oral Cannabis is ingested, there is a low (6%–20%) and variable oral bioavailability.[1,2] Peak plasma concentrations of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) occur after 1 to 6 hours and remain elevated with a terminal half-life of 20 to 30 hours. Taken by mouth, delta-9-THC is initially metabolized in the liver to 11-OH-THC, a potent psychoactive metabolite. Inhaled cannabinoids are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream with a peak concentration in 2 to 10 minutes, declining rapidly for a period of 30 minutes and with less generation of the psychoactive 11-OH metabolite.

 

THC breaks down in the body into metabolites too. Cells degrade THC after absorption.

 

http://www.drugscience.org/Petition/C2D.html

Mentions a NIDA study of blood plasma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/

 

The study produced four dosage conditions:

 

a) 4 puff, 1.75% THC=57 ng/ml;

 

b) 10 puff 1.75% THC or 4 puff 3.55% THC=90 to 99 ng/ml;

 

c) 5 puff 1.75% THC or 10 puff 3.55% THC=172 ng/ml;

 

d) 25 puff 3.55% THC=268 ng/ml.

 

Now we are talking about nanograms in blood plasma. So think about how your skin problem only got a few nanograms of THC, possibly.

 

10^3 g mg milligram

10^6 g µg microgram (mcg)

10^9 g ng nanogram

 

Nanograms are so tiny.

 

All medications have a minimum dose before they are effective. I also do not think there is any research on the minimum dose of THC for various ailments yet. Looking back to the 1900s, the USP made its 3mg/1kg of cannabis oil for a dose that would start to cause intoxication. That is just an intoxication dose, not a medication dose.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(inhalation_device)#cite_note-Hazekamp_2006-37

The Leiden University study found that as much as 30–40% of inhaled THC was not absorbed by the lungs but simply exhaled. However, they did not find large individual differences in the amounts exhaled.

 

http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/jps.20574

 

use with http://sci-hub.cc

 

only an average of 10.8 mg of

THC was totally inhaled from the balloon. The

amount of THC recovered from exhaled breath

ranged from 2.5 to 4.4 mg, which means that up to

30%–40% of inhaled THC was not absorbed by the

lungs.

 

 

This is interesting

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/med/infoprof-eng.php

 

The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) reports that retention samples of their carefully prepared and standardized cigarettes are stable for months, particularly when stored below 0 oC (-18 oC) in the dark, in tightly-closed containersFootnote

76. Even when stored at +18 oC, only a third of the THC content is lost

over a five-year period with some increase in the concentration of CBN. Lower-potency cigarettes (1.15% THC) appear to lose more THC compared to higher potency cigarettes (2.87% THC)

 

 

This is what you want:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/med/infoprof-eng.php#chp221

2.0 Clinical Pharmacology

2.1 Pharmacodynamics

2.2 Pharmacokinetics

2.2.1 Absorption

2.2.1.1 Smoked cannabis

2.2.1.2 Vapourized cannabis

2.2.1.3 Oral

2.2.1.4 Oro-mucosal

2.2.1.5 Rectal

2.2.1.6 Topical

 

A patch containing 8 mg of Δ8-THC yielded a mean steady-state plasma concentration of 4.4 ng/mL Δ8-THC within 1.4 h in a guinea pig model, and this concentration was maintained for at least 48 hFootnote

298. Permeation of cannabidiol (CBD) and cannabinol

(CBN) was found to be 10-fold higher than for Δ8-THCFootnote

300.

 

 

Thats all you get for topical research from canada.

 

http://www.testpledge.com/PDF/Transdermal_THC_final.PDF

Interesting article on hemp oil in cosmetics and dermal absorbtion rates of THC in ppm.

 

 

Different parts of your body will absorb medications at different rates.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/gsas/g9600/2004/GrazianoReadings/Drugabs.pdf

 

 

This might be interesting, although it talks about synthetics with skin cancer treatment.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jphp.12082/abstract‎

 

Use sci-hub again.

 

Found from Oregon topical association document:

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/47047

 

That Oregon document says they cant figure out skin absorbtion rates.

 

https://examine.com/supplements/marijuana/#summary2-0

 

http://greenwellness.org/glycerine-tincture-has-a-90-thc-absorption-rate/

 

No idea.

 

Even high times runs some experiments

http://hightimes.com/edibles/which-fat-absorbs-thc-best/

Edited July 14, 2016 by bax

[bax]

what is the order of absorption when ingested and what differences are there due to ingestion manner?  Does the brain get first crack at cannabinoids in the bloodstream or do the lungs get first crack with smoking and the stomach with eating?  The liver apparently has a lot of receptors too.  Where is it in the pecking order?

 

Second, I am curious whether substances taken in conjunction with cannabis treatment could help to shepherd the cannabinoids to the organ that has, say cancer.  If it turns out that the brain has top priority, might there be a way to block brain absorption, so that the bulk of the medicine gets downstream to say, the liver?

Really great questions.

 

There are other things that are useful for skin cancer, applied topically, that have their own mechanicisms. But no testing has been done to see if they work better/worse with THC.

 

Like broccoli, check this thread and spray broccoli juice on your skin.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/45981-eating-broccoli-prevents-cancer/

 

And Lemon Balm, check this thread too.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/46519-lemon-balm-extracts-an-anti-tumor-potential-rat-study/

 

A couple more threads in that cancer subforum with more plants that are anti-cancer. Check them out!

Edited July 14, 2016 by bax

[imiubu]

Wow, thanks bax. 

[+washtenaut]

Thanks bax.  I am out of 'likes' today apparently

[bax]

I would love to take a bath in cannabis oil, brussel sprout and cabbage juice, toss in some lemon balm... everything else all in one.

Edited July 14, 2016 by bax

[trichcycler]

well BAX, it seems that Olive Oil takes the cake in the HT article for extraction. Like full circle, shekles and hin and stuff....

[Willy]

I know that they have made vaginal suppositories for women to use for cramps.  There was another Aussie woman who used anal suppositories for cancer because she couldn't take the high dosage going thru her liver.  She felt some effects but didn't get as hi as taking it orally.  GM has been talking about DMSO delivery methods for topicals, that not only delivers things past the skin but also into the cells . And there is also talk of injecting oil strait into tumors.

As for ingestion methods tinctures under the tongue go strait into the bloodstream while swallowed meds go thru the digestion process and liver which converts THC to 11 hydroxyTHC making it more potent.  Can't think of any other methods at the moment.

anal suppository's is what tommy chong used to treat his colon cancer.. 

[imiubu]

well BAX, it seems that Olive Oil takes the cake in the HT article for extraction. Like full circle, shekles and hin and stuff....

 

For a topical, olive oil has been proven to penetrate the top 3 layers of our 7 layer epidermis.

Pretty impressive and thus far is the only oil that does so.

I read an article in Joe Weider's Muscle Fitness years ago on the subject of reducing stretch marks

for body builders (which I've tried to locate since to no avail) that had listed several studies supporting

olive oil as a possible stretch mark preventive due to skin absorption.

A win win for topical preparations maybe? 

[WET]

For a topical, olive oil has been proven to penetrate the top 3 layers of our 7 layer epidermis.

Pretty impressive and thus far is the only oil that does so.

I read an article in Joe Weider's Muscle Fitness years ago on the subject of reducing stretch marks

for body builders (which I've tried to locate since to no avail) that had listed several studies supporting

olive oil as a possible stretch mark preventive due to skin absorption.

A win win for topical preparations maybe?

 

Good stuff. I'd be interested in what some of the fancy carrier oils might prove. Jojoba, and argan would be of particular interest. Maybe avocado oil too because it's so fatty...

 

Wet

[+Malamute]

Emu oil

[bax]

Also found this while I was digging around

 

http://www.lexariaenergy.com/news/lexarias-technology-achieves-cannabidiol-absorption-rate-499-greater-than-baseline-in-laboratory-testing/

 

Could be bullcrap could be interesting.

[bax]

tired of doing research.

 

has anyone ever done a chart on absorption rates?

 

oral (eating)

Sub-lingual (under tongue)

nasal (nose)

occular (eye drops)

smoke inhalation (throat / lung)

vaporizer inhalation (throat / lung)

rectal (butt)

vaginal (right in the who-who!)

transdermal (skin/topical)

intravenous (injection)

 

this was posted earlier.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/

 

the oral bioavailability was estimated to be 6%. Slow rates of absorption and low THC concentrations occur after oral administration of THC or cannabis. Several factors may account for the low oral bioavailability of 4−20% (as compared to intravenous drug administration), including variable absorption, degradation of drug in the stomach, and significant first-pass metabolism to active 11-OH-THC and inactive metabolites in the liver.

 

Onset is delayed, peak concentrations are lower, and duration of pharmacodynamic effects generally are extended with a delayed return to baseline, when THC is administered by the oral as compared to the smoked route [29][30].

http://www.greenbridgemed.com/rectal-absorption-of-cannabinoids/

 

blog from a dr who details the rectal administration. he even does 1 hr consults over the phone and answers comments on that blog post. nice.

 

he links to the same study for rectal absorption rates

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689518/

 

 

 

The bioavailability of the rectal route was approximately twice that of the oral route due to higher absorption and lower first-pass metabolism.

people feel different effects from rectal vs oral, so its possible that different cannabinoids are getting absorbed at different rates.

 

 

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Transdermal_CBD.pdf

 

details transdermal and nasal on animals.

The nasal absorption of CBD from all formulations

was rapid (T max ≤ 10 minutes).

 

CBD has a threefold

higher clearance (10.21 ± 2.75 versus 3.37 ± 1.47 L/h)

and shorter terminal elimination half-life (1.06 ± 0.42

versus 7.27 ± 1.95 hours) compared to Δ 9 -THC, suggest-

ing that CBD is eliminated faster in rats.

 

In this study, CBD absolute bioavailabilities achieved

with different nasal formulations were in the range of

34–46%. The absolute bioavailabilities of WIN 55212-2 23

and Δ 9 -THC 24 in our previous studies ranged between

61–77% and 6.4–9.1%, respectively.

 

A blood concentration of 10 ng/mL similar to that of

Δ 9 -THC 41 may be considered therapeutic for CBD

because both molecules share similar chemical struc-

tures and pharmacokinetics.

 

Δ 8 -THC, which is more lipophilic than CBD

hmmm

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21244195

 

Absolute bioavailability values were 13.3 ± 7.8% and 15.4 ± 6.5% for the THC nasal solution and gel formulations, respectively.

Edited January 17, 2017 by bax