4209 And Others Not Dead?

[matt79]

So if they will issue licenses for 1000 plant grows, what would happen in a person without license got caught with 250 plants?

I don't see how they could put them in jail for 15 years just for not having a license, while a guy down the road has 4x the plants and a license.

[westmich]

So if they will issue licenses for 1000 plant grows, what would happen in a person without license got caught with 250 plants?

I don't see how they could put them in jail for 15 years just for not having a license, while a guy down the road has 4x the plants and a license.

I think if you're not licensed and get caught, just like today you have no protections from prosecution.  I don't see anything in these laws that reduce penalties for existing marijuana law.

[matt79]

Yeah I get that, but it seems pretty unbalanced. I mean they don't send bootleggers to prison. And essentially growing without a license would be akin to bootlegging. That's the way I see it anyway

[matt79]

And isn't this whole bill 4209 kinda wrong? How can the state issue a license to an individual to produce a schedule 1 drug that is illegal under federal law?

[Highlander]

its a joke.

In that case, in the words of Phaque, "Baaaa haaaa haaaa haaa phaquing ha!" And I'll watch the news to see that phaquer be the first person who gets busted for doing a BHO extraction in a camper at a state park.

 

LOL, peace, loose lips sink ships, and all that.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Most people aren't smart enough to safely do BHO extraction, and honestly it should only be done with a recapture system.  It is a greenhouse gas that helps promote global warming.  Not going to argue global warming here, but it is obviously real and dumping 50 cans of unburnt fuel into the atmosphere is horrible for the environment.  Now multiply that by 5000 people doing it and you are dumping 250,000 cans into the air every 2 months...

 

Just to save a few bucks on a recapture system (by a few, they aren't cheap...).  But there are so many other ways to do it that are cheap.  You can get a hair straightener to get Rosin, a hydraulic 10 ton press, many other ways...  I sure as hell don't want my neighbors 15 year old kid trying to do an extraction in his basement next to his water heater...

 

Leave it to the pro's with the right equipment.  You are probably going to find that several processors will pop up, spend the $10k on equipment, and process it fairly cheap.  Or learn to do it safely...

[free420country]

I still say screw the dispensary and the provisioning centers.... They are just going to steal your grow rights....

[westmich]

Most people aren't smart enough to safely do BHO extraction, and honestly it should only be done with a recapture system.  It is a greenhouse gas that helps promote global warming.  Not going to argue global warming here, but it is obviously real and dumping 50 cans of unburnt fuel into the atmosphere is horrible for the environment.  Now multiply that by 5000 people doing it and you are dumping 250,000 cans into the air every 2 months...

 

Just to save a few bucks on a recapture system (by a few, they aren't cheap...).  But there are so many other ways to do it that are cheap.  You can get a hair straightener to get Rosin, a hydraulic 10 ton press, many other ways...  I sure as hell don't want my neighbors 15 year old kid trying to do an extraction in his basement next to his water heater...

 

Leave it to the pro's with the right equipment.  You are probably going to find that several processors will pop up, spend the $10k on equipment, and process it fairly cheap.  Or learn to do it safely...

 

I've been doing some reading on closed-loop C02 extraction.  Not cheap, but it seems like a good alternative for commercial interests.  I took a trip to Lansing this summer and picked up some live resin while there - I'd have to give it a thumbs up on flavor and potency.

 

It would've been nice, like so many other items, had the new laws included allowing processors to work directly for patients or caregivers.  Not to supply the retail market but to convert 2.5 ounces to live resin or some other form done very well that the average patient/caregiver would not be able to do.

[+Malamute]

Oils are only about 15% of  the retail market.  I would say that is and will likely increase some, but it has good margins(not as good as medibles) and corporate philosophy will push their highest margin products. It is definitely fun to watch it all go down.

 

Just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round...

[+Malamute]

You also have to remember what type of people would use a dispensary when anyone they know including themselves can grow it.  I mean I know a lot of people in Colorado and nota single one would ever use a dispensary. Pot isso cheap and accessible, there is no need to pay twice as much for something.  So that lop sides what you see sold at retail and may give an improper view of total usage.

 

 Like Arizona, only 1.6% of patients are even possibly allowed to grow marijuana. 2.4% total when including caregiver.  Yet only 35% of patients use dispensaries. Hmmm,... the market isn't actually retail. Just a portion and not a majority.

[+Malamute]

Also, CO2 is the only way to go anymore.  Cleaner. More efficient. Less damaging.

 

 But I am still a fan of water only extraction myself.  

[WET]

I've been doing some reading on closed-loop C02 extraction.  Not cheap, but it seems like a good alternative for commercial interests.  I took a trip to Lansing this summer and picked up some live resin while there - I'd have to give it a thumbs up on flavor and potency.

 

It would've been nice, like so many other items, had the new laws included allowing processors to work directly for patients or caregivers.  Not to supply the retail market but to convert 2.5 ounces to live resin or some other form done very well that the average patient/caregiver would not be able to do.

co2 is never happening. Look out west. It's dead already.

[Wild Bill]

I mean they don't send bootleggers to prison.

 

What would give you that idea?

http://www.valdezstar.net/story/2015/03/18/main-news/bootlegging-charges-result-in-hefty-prison-term/814.html

[matt79]

Well in that case the lady already had previous conviction for embezzlement. Plus she was also bringing in narcotics. It looks like a pretty big operation because it involved an airplane

[westmich]

Any person participating in this system in any capacity, even simply purchasing from a dispensary, is tracked in a law enforcement database. This database is exempted from FOIA, but not confidential. This is likely to cause a large number of unforeseen problems. Beware, walking into a dispensary and trying a gram is a potentially life-changing experience.

 

Where are you reading all that drama from?

[westmich]

co2 is never happening. Look out west. It's dead already.

 

I'm not seeing that anywhere.  Do you have some links?

 

From what I've read C02 is not only safer, but it captures a lot more of the terpenes and allows for quite a bit of variety in finished product depending on pressure and duration.

[westmich]

Law enforcement and other state agencies will have access to the transaction database. Unforeseen problems as mundane as being denied a CPL or purchase permit, all the way to possible publication of certain information in LIEN.

 

I assume this is in reply to me.  Could you give some hints?  Which section of which bill lead to the potential problems you are suggesting?

[t-pain]

law enforcement shares all kinds of databases.

 

so this potentially could be real problem. maybe when crossing borders, applying for student aid, background checks etc. remember background checks were able to access lein sometimes.

 

but here in reality, so far, in states where leo gets the database, nor of this has happened yet.

 

zap playing chicken little. but I agree with him

[westmich]

Did you know that every medical marijuana transaction goes into a database which is accessible in real time to law enforcement, is only exempted from access by FOIA, and is not confidential in any other sense? This is in HB 4209.

 

The commercial entities that lobbied for these bills were completely blind to the real problems encountered by patients.

 

Here is what I found in the bill related to the database and tracking.  If there are more sections, please let me know by number.

 

Sec. 101.

(z) "Statewide monitoring system" or, unless the context requires a different meaning, "system" means an Internet-based, statewide database established, implemented, and maintained by the department under the marihuana tracking act, that is available to licensees, law enforcement agencies, and authorized state departments and agencies on a 24-hour basis for all of the following:

  (i) Verifying registry identification cards.

  (ii) Tracking marihuana transfer and transportation by licensees, including transferee, date, quantity, and price.

  (iii) Verifying in commercially reasonable time that a transfer will not exceed the limit that the patient or caregiver is authorized to receive under section 4 of the Michigan medical marihuana act, MCL 333.26424.

  

Sec. 206.

(p) Providing the department and state agencies with access to information in the database that they are authorized to access.

(q) Providing law enforcement agencies with access to only the information in the database that is necessary to verify that an individual possesses a valid and current registry identification card.

(s) Securing the confidentiality of information in the database by preventing access by a person who is not authorized to access the statewide monitoring system or is not authorized to access the particular information.

 

Sec. 302.

(l) Reviewing the patterns of marihuana transfers by the licensees under this act as recorded in a statewide database established for use in administering and enforcing this act and making recommendations to the governor and the legislature in a written annual report to the governor and the legislature and additional reports that the governor requests. The annual report shall be submitted by April 15 of each year and shall include the report required under section 702, a statement of receipts and disbursements by the board, the actions taken by the board, and any additional information and recommendations that the board considers appropriate or that the governor requests.

 

I am not seeing the doom and gloom in this.  I read it much like the current process of having your driver's license swiped when buying cold medicine.  If you're buying your max limit of cold pills at every pharmacy in town, you might get denied at some point and/or a visit from LEO.

 

The concern that does come up here is it is opening up a time duration on the limit of cannabis.  The MMMA limits you 2.5 ounces at any one time, but gives no indication of how long you have to consume it.  Will the new board say you are limited 2.5 ounces per day or week or month?  That is my biggest concern with this portion.

[t-pain]

don't think there will be a limit, but of you buy more than 2.5 oz in day/week it might get you flagged for attention

[westmich]

don't think there will be a limit, but of you buy more than 2.5 oz in day/week it might get you flagged for attention

 

I read a reply elsewhere that many states have set this up on a 10 day limit.  That is, you can't purchase more than 2.5 ounces in 10 days from any and all dispensaries.  Unless the prices go to rock bottom, I don't think it will even be a concern.

[Willy]

I read a reply elsewhere that many states have set this up on a 10 day limit.  That is, you can't purchase more than 2.5 ounces in 10 days from any and all dispensaries.  Unless the prices go to rock bottom, I don't think it will even be a concern.

talking about price crashes.. see >> https://www.greenrushdaily.com/2016/09/12/cannabis-prices-crashing-colorado-washington/

 

“In less than a year, we’ve seen wholesale prices drop to nearly half of their previous totals,” says Tradiv director of sales John Manlove. “We’ve never seen prices like this.”

[williams2311]

The article also says 20 25 a gram is just over ten a gram. They were robbing people at 25 a gram

[pergamum362]

The price drops are in colorado tho. Its completely legal there, i dont see it dropping much if it in the medical scene here. Probably the reverse. But black market in legal states, a full unit is only 14-1800 real time. My cousins live in arkansaw and make the couple hour drive all the time.