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Clones: To Scrape Or Not To Scrape..a New Threat Indoors


Blkwlf

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When preparing cuttings for cloning, I've heard from a variety of sources 2 different philosophies. One: strickly goes with the traditional cutting and dipping in cloning gel making sure to have good node sights. Two: It's mentioned to cut the same as in the first just as with choosing ones with good node sights but it adds scraping the end of the cutting's shaft prior to dipping in cloning gel. I would like to hear the opinions of those here since I value the information and experience I've found here. If there are varying views, I'd like to hear why or why not you believe in doing it one way or the other.

Also, I've dealt with air emnbolisms when I haven't gotten my cuttings in water fast enough. Has anyone heard of issues with not getting fresh cuttings straight into cloners though they were left in water and under good light?

Next: When taking cuttings from plants which are flowering, what is the opinion on leaving the flower on the cutting verses snipping the flowers off?

I took cuttings from close to or off the main stalk with clean cuts in plenty of good water and under good light but had to leave them there for a couple days because I injured my ankle and couldn't walk down my stairs to my cloner. I did nip off the flowers which had begun because my last batch, which I got in the cloners right away, seemed to take longer to root and I lost more than usual. I did scrape these cuttings, both groups, prior to dipping in the gel and placing in cloners and wonder if that had an ill effect.

Last year I had a near 95% success rate of cuttings taking root. This year I'm down to 50% or less and it's frustrating.

Last year I didn't have an issue with aphids on my outdoor plants but have noticed my cuttings have them and am now spraying my cuttings. Should I protect the cubes from the organic pesticide? Could it getting on the cubes be causing a problem? I just began using cubes this year though I also use my hydro and am having problems in that as well.

As always, any and all comments, questions, remarks are very welcome. This year's been a year of plagues for me for sure!!!! If not for last fall's harvest I wouldn't have made it through the year. Trying a new 3 part indoor war on pests. Mites haven't been a big issue since spring after they wiped out my entire stock but something else is making the leaves of my plants dry & brittle while they're still green ( through a darker green ) before killing the leaves & it's not affecting all of the plants or even those nearest the ones affected. It's strange. Thank you again for lending your expertise. Blkwlf

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Actually no rooting products are necessary.

 

Forever, shade clones were cut during veg and warm humid days, placed in water for a day or two and planted into starter soil, and set under the shade of the mother.

The cut will root on its own if the humidity is high and temp is @80, in about 5-10 days. Depending on strain. No direct sunlight until the roots are developed enough to plant into grow medium.

If the cut starts to droop pull it and place it back in water for a day or two, it will come back if you are working with healthy plants.

Replant and repeat as necessary.

 

Or

 

Take your cuts, put them in water with a couple air stones to make a bubble cloner.

To much air/ agitation will damage new root growth so don't get crazy. An aquarium air pum works great.

 

Mother Nature doesn't use commercial chemicals why should you?

 

As for the cut, I encourage the break and rip method that is more natural. Break the stem and pull it so you have what looks like a thin root @ 1-2 inches long.

Your cutting tools can transfer and spread disease and pests and DNA .

Only fools work with dirty tools.

Edited by beourbud
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I feel differently , i scrape the stem of the clones, i dip or dont, dont think it makes a big differense.  but i do scrape, but there is a trick to it, if you go so deep that you see wood , it will not root there.. yoiu need to just scrap the bark just a bit an  it will root from there.. 

I try not to take clones in flower, they need time to turn  back to veg. but if i do need to do that i will eave the flower alone.. it will go away as the plant returns to veg.. leave it till the leaves go straight again, reveging makes them weird, bent and curled up .. then they straighten up. I do hydro so mine are always in water.. 

Humidity needs to be higher but i have done it without a dome .. I just spritz them every day just to keep it damp, I prefer  a dome.. I use a floro light to clone under... clones always droop the first day.. least my strain does, but the next morning there up and doing there thing. pictures will help us guess those leaves.. other wise no idea..

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I have to say, I have seen a couple Sativas strains that just don't take to rooting very well, if the above doesn't work after a couple weeks a rooting compound is used to save the genetics.

Strong indicas root very easy

 

I agree, it's very difficult to find a landrace that clones easily. Maybe we should start a new thread specifically for growing sativas.

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Break the node/branch above very gently and the skin should hold and you can pull down and make a natural shave. I use this approach. If it fails, I usually scrape a little off. Most are rooted in 7-10 days, but for sure by 14. They get the boot if we go over 14 days.

 

Willow tree tea is an excellent natural rooting practice, or aloe pulp with aoe water. Nature doesn't take clones, beourbud....js. Why so much disdain for indoor? 90% of cup winners are indoor soil. Watch out for bird poops! Splat!!

 

Wet

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The rooting chemicals are more of a hormone produced by plants than chemicals.  Although I am sure they use some pretty cool chemicals to extract it from the plants...

 

Basically the reason to scrape is to remove the outer layer of skin since roots start from inside and have to break through the tough skin which takes a lot of energy.  By scraping, and not too deep or it won't root, you provide a lower energy way to get more roots faster.  It isn't so much as getting it to root, it is how many roots can you grow.  By scraping, even without gel, I can have a fuzzy beard on a clip in 7-10 days, not a couple straggly roots.

 

Also, when scraping I generally don't go all the way around, I do stripes, and by doing this you really get to see the difference in how many roots you have where it is scraped versus where it isn't.  I don't always use gel, but I always scrape and have great success.

 

Wet, you said nature doesn't clone...  Not sure if you have ever seen a Black Locust tree, it constantly clones itself by making shoots off of roots, I had a plum that did the same which is kind of reverse cloning, making a tree off of roots.

 

Also, spider plants and most vines clone.  If you let it get a spider vine near dirt it will drop roots from that point.  Then if you cut the vine from the main plant, you suddenly have 2 plants.  It is exactly like air cloning, but occurs in nature every day.

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I guess you got me there ;) Cannabis doesn't do that tho. Naturally it would be a field of seeded females and naked, empty and proud males. Poop seeds, rinse and repeat. But I hear ya. I'm sure that poison ivy I got made its way from 40-50 yards away. Related, but not attached at this point. Mthr f-er.

 

Wet

Edited by WET
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Thanks for all the great ideas. Yes, certain plants such as pole beans, tomatos, grapes and quite a few melon and squash + others with natural "hairs" along the shafts can eiter naturally clone or be cloned by simply sticking a broken piece into the soil. Light isn't an issue for this method since the roots will be growing in the ground. I do believe the issue I've been having has more to do with the change of location of my cloner to a less warm and less humid area as well as changing the light I was using. I was using a T-5 which does put off some heat but switched to a Floro. which doesn't. Also, it's become much cooler and less humid outside which changes the temp. in my basement. I changed my cloner location today back to the Veg. room and back under the T-5. I'll keep scraping and won't "nip" the small flowers off this next set. This will be the last set of clones I'll be able to take from my outdoor plants. Thankfully, I have a good number of babies inside from clones that took earlier so I'll be able to continue to perpetuate the strains throughout the winter. My Acapulco Gold took very easy to cloning. The ones that haven't done as well for me are Gorilla Glue #4 and Agent Orange. Cannatonic #4 hasn't been the easiest either. I never let a cutting go past 14 days unless it's showing small roots and is still healthy. I might look into the willow and aloe methods. I've been using Clonex gel and Clonex water additive religiously but am always open to better methods. Since I grow indoors and out, I can't really take side on that topic...:-) Thank you all for your input, as always, it's invaluable! Blkwlf

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I cut them off in veg (budd only if I HAVE to) than I give them a nice clean angle cut, I do a little scrapping, I use clonex, I put them in cubes, I dont use a cloner, I never have,  I put one of them throw away plastic tops a bit over it with holes sliced in it, I spray them with r.o water only, I use a 2 bulb 2' t-12,  I have them in my veg tent,  I have had a 99% live rate,

 

I havent been growing for like 4 yrs now, so I may not have ran into some of the strains that are harder to do, (I imagine some are difficult now)

 

(plastic top that comes with an aluminum throw away turkey pan)

 

Keeping them moiste and a nice clean cut I beleive helps my own successs, I have done them in promix with a 100% failure rate, (it was a test) cubes work best,

 

Peace

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I find that success rate with clones depends on the health of the mother plant. A weak mom will produce cuts that don't have enough energy to wake up in the morning, let alone make new roots. It's all about stored carbs, not so much about how you cut and dip.

 

true dat. Step 1 for sure is good mom/healthy cuts

 

You know I'm rooting (pun!) for good weather and a good harvest beourbud. Thought I'd hassle ya though ;) Weather looks good. The boys out west took down the early birds. Good luck.

 

Wet

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When preparing cuttings for cloning, I've heard from a variety of sources 2 different philosophies. One: strickly goes with the traditional cutting and dipping in cloning gel making sure to have good node sights. Two: It's mentioned to cut the same as in the first just as with choosing ones with good node sights but it adds scraping the end of the cutting's shaft prior to dipping in cloning gel. I would like to hear the opinions of those here since I value the information and experience I've found here. If there are varying views, I'd like to hear why or why not you believe in doing it one way or the other. Also, I've dealt with air emnbolisms when I haven't gotten my cuttings in water fast enough. Has anyone heard of issues with not getting fresh cuttings straight into cloners though they were left in water and under good light? Next: When taking cuttings from plants which are flowering, what is the opinion on leaving the flower on the cutting verses snipping the flowers off? I took cuttings from close to or off the main stalk with clean cuts in plenty of good water and under good light but had to leave them there for a couple days because I injured my ankle and couldn't walk down my stairs to my cloner. I did nip off the flowers which had begun because my last batch, which I got in the cloners right away, seemed to take longer to root and I lost more than usual. I did scrape these cuttings, both groups, prior to dipping in the gel and placing in cloners and wonder if that had an ill effect. Last year I had a near 95% success rate of cuttings taking root. This year I'm down to 50% or less and it's frustrating. Last year I didn't have an issue with aphids on my outdoor plants but have noticed my cuttings have them and am now spraying my cuttings. Should I protect the cubes from the organic pesticide? Could it getting on the cubes be causing a problem? I just began using cubes this year though I also use my hydro and am having problems in that as well. As always, any and all comments, questions, remarks are very welcome. This year's been a year of plagues for me for sure!!!! If not for last fall's harvest I wouldn't have made it through the year. Trying a new 3 part indoor war on pests. Mites haven't been a big issue since spring after they wiped out my entire stock but something else is making the leaves of my plants dry & brittle while they're still green ( through a darker green ) before killing the leaves & it's not affecting all of the plants or even those nearest the ones affected. It's strange. Thank you again for lending your expertise. Blkwlf

Cambian=a layer of delicate meristematic tissue between the inner bark or phloem and the wood or xylem, which produces new phloem on the outside and new xylem on the inside in stems, roots, etc., originating all secondary growth in plants and forming the annual rings of wood.

 

when you slice straight through the stem at a 90 degree angle the cambian layer is less exposed than if you sliced at a 45 degree angle. This is the layer of regrowth, the  stem cells able to create new systems more easily than a leaf tissue for example. You'll recognize it as the "white/ish" layer in the 45 cut. I use a scalpel, polyethylene cutting board for the task.

 

while I have had success with a 45 cut experimenting I dont do it any longer. I always 45 at the last minute before dipping. I use Clonex(synthetic cloning/culturing growth regulators, hormones) when I run out of my own willow water seasonally. Both work great in rapid rooters, under a hood, kept moist, vegging along with the all the other vegging plants under a single 4x8 485 watt T5 fixture. I mist only if they're not erect the next day, otherwise a spill of water in each cube when dry on top. I keep the rooters in little shot glass style punched cups.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I want to thank everyone for their advice and apologize for not responding sooner. I've been hurting quite a bit more due to the rain and cooler weather and my husband's entire outside grow was stolen. 45 PLANTS!!!!!! I guess some people are worse than trash. GL to EV1 this year. Blkwlf

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Since the outdoor crop is lost & the indoor wasn't ready for the flower room ( took time off from cloning so didn't have indoor + outdoor ready to harvest at same time & to keep numbers right ) I don't have any use for my cloner for a while and won't have anything ready to take cuts from for a few weeks. I can't strip them since they're all I have to produce product. Don't even know if I can keep going. Outdoor helped to pay for indoor electric and were suppose to pay for LED's to cut electric cost inside. I will look into the russet and broad mites since I know it's not an issue with lights too hot or too close nor an issue with nutrients. Though extremely OCD about transfer, could have transferred these from outdoor grow which wouldn't have been hit as hard or even noticably at this point as smaller plants due to rain, wind & organic fogging pestices used outside. I want to thank everyone again. This has been an enormous loss, especially to a new grower, and very hard expense and loss to overcome. GL and good harvest to EV1 Blkwlf

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Thank you Wet. Right now I'm splitting my indoor plants up, donating some to him, and concentrating on getting the others grown up enough to flower. I stopped cloning until I get this sorted out. Doing a full clean of my grow rooms, husband is doing same, to rid ourselves of the little monsters that got in when he brought in some of the branches from outside that the theives dropped on their way out. They left a trail to where they were parked. Unfortunately, in the rush to get those branches hung, he hung them right outside the grow rooms and transferred a few bugs that weren't hurting the big outdoor plants to the babies inside which aren't fairing as well. Doing a full fog bomb after removing the plants, branches and the dead plant material from the branches then putting the plants in a CO2 fog after a good spray down. The grow rooms have separate ventilation so a CO2 fog won't hurt anyone. . I'm sure you all understand the hurt of a loss of 45 12-14 foot plants right before harvest. Over half of what he had was Sativa or high Sativa content hybrids so they were at least 3 weeks from being ready to harvest but the rest were definaztely ready. I'll be signed off for a little bit until this is sorted out but I wanted to thank you all for your help and support. Good Harvest to all outdoor growers and a good year to everyone else :-) Blkwlf

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