Police Cite Drastic Increase In Pot-Related Arrests As State Scrambles With Shifting Laws

[GregS]

I've home grown for about 25 years. I'm careful but no longer fear LEO. I'm the only one of three brothers who hasn't spent a night in jail. I don't worry much anymore. A night in jail, a 7411...? EZ.

And I will be in your cheering section.

[GregS]

See section 8

...and this: http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/584/entry-1163-added-evidentiary-protection-with-or-without-registration/

 

Please forgive me for coming back with this repeatedly, but the topic comes up repeatedly.

Edited December 14, 2016 by GregS

[Highlander]

...and this: http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/584/entry-1163-added-evidentiary-protection-with-or-without-registration/

 

Please forgive me for coming back with this repeatedly, but the topic comes up repeatedly.

....as it should

[+Malamute]

Thanks Malamute.  So basically, it is illegal, you admit it is illegal, but you maybe can avoid punishment because of your excuses.  Is that it in laymans terms?

 

On the criminal side, yes.  Civil side is a little different, but yes.

 

There are varying ways you have to prove an affirmative defense with varying degrees of requirements qualifying you for said defense in a certain case.

 

In The MMMAct, there was an Affirmative defense granted when drafted. We refer to it as a "Sec. 8 Defense" because it is Sec. 8 of the Act.

 

I know most of you understand this, but for future people who read this,... it explains something anyway.

 

Current version of Sec. 8:

333.26428 Defenses.

 

8. Affirmative Defense and Dismissal for Medical Marihuana.

 

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7(b), a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

             (1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the

                  patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

             (2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating

                  or alleviating  the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; and

 

             (3) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were engaged in the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the use of marihuana to treat or

                   alleviate the patient's serious  or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition.

 

          (b) A person may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana in a motion to dismiss, and the charges shall be dismissed following an evidentiary hearing where the person shows the elements listed in subsection (a).

 

          © If a patient or a patient's primary caregiver demonstrates the patient's medical purpose for using marihuana pursuant to this section, the patient and the patient's primary caregiver shall not be subject to the following for the patient's medical use of marihuana:

             (1) disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau; or

             (2) forfeiture of any interest in or right to property.

 

[bax]

Thanks Malamute.  So basically, it is illegal, you admit it is illegal, but you maybe can avoid punishment because of your excuses.  Is that it in laymans terms?

which is why as long as marijuana is illegal, the police and prosecutors will go after patients and caregivers.

 

make marijuana legal again and this all mostly stops.

 

as seen in colorado, washington, alaska, DC, oregon, and now california

even if they are not full legalization ,they are a big huge giant step in the direction of JUST LEAVING PATIENTS THE flower ALONE.

[bobandtorey]

I don't counter it. I just do what I do within the law. It's simple, really.

Thanks 

I still believe we did the same and many others in the State Imho that is i've seen so many people at theses Court House's i lost count and yes many have done nothing wrong that the AD would have protected them 

Sorry it's only my Opinion  Mr. Highlander

[bobandtorey]

I said Teenagers because that's what LEO throws out.  It was wrong, what I meant was uncarded people.

 

I think you are taking this wrong HL.  I 100% support individual grow rights.  I also think that 4209 is a horrible bill that will lead to the end of caregivers.  I could be incorrect, and I hope I am.  Honestly I would rather see legal transfer from ANY CG to ANY Patient be legal...  Then I would argue with you that dispensaries are not needed at all.  I'd still support them, but it wouldn't be necessary.  But that isn't the case.

 

So you can ONLY transfer to the 5 patients who call you a PRIMARY caregiver.  Sure they said you don't have to register for section 8, but you can only assist the 5 people linked to you.  Any and all other transfers are illegal.  P2P  CG2CG CG2P if not linked to you is all illegal.

 

So HL, if you are in an area that allows transfers to people who aren't registered to you, awesome, but that isn't the case here. 

 

Yes, 4209 stinks of big business trying to crush home grows.  I don't support it past giving patients more access, but I fear the implementation.

 

I hope I am wrong, but when Schuette is Governor, do you really think he will support the CG system any more?  He lead the opposition in 2008, and has tried to undermine the act ever since it was initiated.  And just look, he is the frontrunner to win in 2018...

 

 

when Schuette is Governor, do you really think he will support the CG system any more? Great point and i agree but i still don't think Lansing is working on getting rid of Caregivers not yet antyways

[bobandtorey]

Dispensaries can and do use section 8 to defend themselves. It is way more difficult than a caregiver, generally, but it is done. I am sure the dispensaries in Kent County that were shut down are glad that section 8 exists.

 

 

 

I agree and have seen a few myself  ( Live ) of course 

[bobandtorey]

With an affirmative defense, the defendant admits guilt to committing the crime, but uses an affirmation defense to introduce additional facts or explanation to justify his or her conduct.  Some of the most common affirmative defenses include mental illness, self-defense, entrapment, mistake of fact, intoxication, duress. If defendant successfully offers a justification for his or action or behavior, his legal liability is limited or completely exonerated.

 

Affirmative vs. Negating Defenses

 

An affirmative defense is used to explain or justify the behavior that is alleged to be criminal. But this defense can sometimes be more difficult to prove than a negating defense. A negating defense attacks an essential element of the criminal charge brought by the prosecutor. Because the prosecutor has the initial burden of proving every element of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, to negate, the defense only has the burden of creating doubt about one or all of the elements.  To do so, the defendent has to produce some actual evidence through eyewitnesses, videos, or other physical proof to support justification.

 

However, the use of an affirmative defense is not about attacking an element of the crime, it is usually about justifying or excusing the criminal action. For example, suppose a defendant is on trial for first degree murder of her husband. To prove a first degree murder charge, the prosecutor must generally offer evidence that the murder was premeditated, that is, the defendant planned the murder beforehand. The prosecutor has plenty of DNA evidence to connect the defendant to the murder of her husband, but  weak or speculative evidence that the defendant actually planned the murder. The defense may use a negating defense in this case, to show that since the prosecution has not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant planned to kill her husband, the jury cannot convict the defendant for first degree murder.

 

However, to strengthen the case that the murder was not premeditated, the defense may also introduce additional evidence which shows that the defendant acted in self-defense. This additional evidence may be photos of the defendant after the murder which shows her badly beaten, or witness testimony that someone heard the defendant crying out for help the night of the murder. Self-defense is a commonly used affirmative defense, which justifies a defendant’s unlawful behavior on the basis of protecting oneself. If used successfully, the defendant in this case could be exonerated of the crime altogether.

 

Types of Affirmative Defenses

 

While the availability of an affirmative defense will depend on the state, there are generally two categories of affirmative defenses, justifications and excuses. There is also one affirmative defense that defendants use when they deny the charge altogether, called the alibi defense.

 

Justification defenses say that, though the defendant did the crime, there were very good reasons for doing so. The above example in which the defendant used self-defense as a justification for killing her husband is an example of this type of affirmative defense. Other justification defenses include defense of property, defense of others, law enforcement defense, and necessity.

 

Excuse defenses assert an excuse for committing the crime, even though the defendant admits to committing the crime.  Excuse defenses include insanity, duress, diminished capacity, intoxication, and infancy. For example, a defendant who uses the insanity defense alleges that though he committed the crime, he was unable to know right from wrong as a result of his mental illness, and therefore he could not control his behavior at the time of the crime and should be excused.   Similarily, a defendant who asserts that he committed the crime under duress, is admitting to committing the crime, but because he was forced to commit the crime (i.e., robbing a bank because the wife was hostage if you did not), it was out of his control and should be excused.

 

Finally, an alibi affirmative defense is probably the best affirmative defense because the defendant maintains his complete lack of involvement with the crime. An alibi defense offers evidence that the defendant was not at the scene of the crime when the crime took place. An alibi affirmative defense is most effectively used in conjunction with a negating defense. For instance, if the prosecutor has weak evidence that tends to show that the defendant was at the crime scene, the defense can point this weakness out as a negating defense, and also assert an alibi as an affirmative defense.

 

 

Thanks Mal

 

With an affirmative defense, the defendant admits guilt to committing the crime, but uses an affirmation defense to introduce additional facts or explanation to justify his or her conduct.  Some of the most common affirmative defenses include mental illness, self-defense, entrapment, mistake of fact, intoxication, duress. If defendant successfully offers a justification for his or action or behavior, his legal liability is limited or completely exonerated.

 

Of all the Court Rooms i have been to i've never seen someone that could tell a Jury anything about medical Cannabis and they had a card yet

[bobandtorey]

which is why as long as marijuana is illegal, the police and prosecutors will go after patients and caregivers.

 

make marijuana legal again and this all mostly stops.

 

as seen in colorado, washington, alaska, DC, oregon, and now california

even if they are not full legalization ,they are a big huge giant step in the direction of JUST LEAVING PATIENTS THE flower ALONE.

 

 

Thanks again 

 

You do know some of the State's have replaced Marihuana arrest with a Driving arrest ( people that use cannabis and drive )

[bax]

Thanks again 

 

You do know some of the State's have replaced Marihuana arrest with a Driving arrest ( people that use cannabis and drive )

i neeed links to these increase in arrests mr "arrests are up 400%" with nothing to back up said claim.

[bobandtorey]

http://www.tucsonnew...earch-by-police

 

 

Will this help ?

[bax]

you were talking about cannabis driving arrests being up. i'm just giving you a hard time, bob

 

something like this is what i was looking for:

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/02/11/fewer-people-charged-in-colorado-with-driving-while-high-in-2015/

 

Overall, the number of people cited for marijuana-related driving under the influence of drugs dropped 1.3 percent between 2014 and 2015, the report said. In 2015, 665 impaired drivers had marijuana in their systems, compared with 674 in 2014.

[bax]

https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/Marijuana_Legalization_Status_Report_101316.pdf

 

legalization status report 10/2016

 

https://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2016-SB13-283-Rpt.pdf

 

colorado legalization status report

[GregS]

....as it should

Now I find it missing. Zap says he does not know who or how. Who removed it and why?

Edited December 22, 2016 by GregS

[GregS]

Now I find it missing. Zap says he does not know who or how. Who removed it and why?

Do we have a coward?

[GregS]

Fixed it.

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/584/entry-1192-doubling-down-on-protection-from-conviction/

[GregS]

Regarding the Supreme Court decision in People v Hartwick and People v Tuttle, decided January 15th, 2015, I offer the following agreement that might be used between any patient and any caregiver. Both can benefit from it under any circumstance. It costs nothing but time, ink, and paper, and offers added protection from conviction in the event you are arrested and tried for marijuana use if and when you need it. Your bank provides notary services to its customers free. Many physician offices have a notary on their office staff, and all attorneys have a notary on board. Please note that it covers two of three necessary elements of the Affirmative Defense found in sec. 8 of the law, i.e., that a patient and doctor have met and concluded a bona fide medical exam and that patient and caregiver are engaged in medical use to treat or alleviate a patient's condition or symptoms. The third element is to adhere to the requirement that an amount not more than necessary is held in possession. I have suggested that twelve oz is an amount not more than necessary to supply a patient who uses a zip a month for a year, and would welcome any reasonable argument otherwise. To this point I have had no takers. You can find the ruling here. Footnotes 77 and 78 lay it out that this type of documentation is admissible, and even necessary, evidence in any prosecution regarding marijuana: http://komornlaw.com...n-8-opinion.pdf). He was found to have possessed a reasonable amount more than thirty pounds and in compliance with the other elements of the required defense. It is admissible under the Michigan Rules of Evidence as self authenticating notarized evidence (MRE Rule 902 (8)) and self authenticating Certified Records of Regularly Conducted Activity (MRE Rule 902 (11)).

 

It intends to prevent the need to have a physician testify, which is not advised except if necessary to provide evidence at trial, saving time, trouble, and expense. Furthermore, it is best not to have any witness for the defense questioned by a prosecutor for obvious reasons. It intends to establish the required prima facie evidence of a bona fide physician patient relationship without a physician present. It will be necessary to require your physician to sign his or her proof found in the supporting documents. If not, the court ruled that the actual text of the physician statement submitted as part of the registration process might suffice, and it was entered into evidence and ruled admissible by the court in Fisher. It would nonetheless be best to have both.

Note that this agreement is not useful to only registered patients and caregivers, but also provides what the Supreme Court ruled is prima facie evidence in non registered sec. 8 defenses. Any patient or other person, registered or unregistered, can qualify as a caregiver under the definition found in the law (sec. 3(k)) to any patient, registered or unregistered, with or without connection through the state registry per the definitions found in sec. 3 of the MMA. There are no limits in sec. 8 to the number of patients a caregiver can provide for nor caregivers a patient can have. Police officers and informants who enter into it will not be able to entrap medical users.

You will do well to ask an attorney re: any legal questions. I am not an attorney and have no professional relationship with anyone in that regard. It is my own work as informed musing if nothing else. It is not intended as legal advice. If anyone should want the added protection, something like this might be used in consultation with a trained attorney. I have no objection to anyone using it verbatim or edited. It, by itself, provides no protection from arrest and due process as sec. 4 state registration does.


Patient/Caregiver Agreement to Engage in the Medical Use of Marijuana

I,______________________________________, swear and affirm that I am a patient under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, Initiated Law 1 of 2008.

Dr._____________________________, a physician authorized under Part 170 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.17001 to 333.17084, or an osteopathic physician under Part 175 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.17501 to 333.17556, physician license I.D. number____________________ , has stated that in the physician's professional opinion, on or about (date)___________________________, and after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, that I am likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marijuana to treat or alleviate a debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition (copy attached) .

I hereby designate_______________________________ as my caregiver under that law, and agree to conform to the Act in the medical use of marijuana to treat or alleviate a debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.

I, ______________________________________, swear and affirm that I am at least 21 years of age and have agreed to assist with the above named patient's medical use of marijuana in accordance with that law. I have not been convicted of any felony within the past 10 years and have never been convicted of a felony involving illegal drugs or a felony that is an assaultive crime as defined in section 9a of chapter X of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 770.9a.

Confidentiality: Each party agrees and undertakes that it shall not, without first obtaining the written consent of the other, disclose or make available to any person, reproduce or transmit in any manner or use (directly or indirectly) for its own benefit or the benefit of others, any Confidential Information, save and except that both parties may disclose any Confidential Information to their legal advisers and counselors for the specific purposes contemplated by this agreement. Presentment or disclosure of this information is not prohibited as required by law or in any prosecution pertaining to the medical use of marijuana.


Subscribed and sworn before me this date: ____________________________

Patient sign here: _________________________________

Subscribed and sworn before me this date: ____________________________

Caregiver sign here: ________________________________

/s/_________________________________

Print Notary Name: ________________________________

Notary public, State of Michigan, County of _____________________

My commission expires ___________________

Acting in the County of ___________________


DO NOT OVERLOOK the supporting documents. Use one or the other: https://sites.google...attredirects=0, which requires notarization, or https://sites.google...?attredirects=0

Edited March 5, 2017 by GregS