saiamne

I haven't abandoned my post here, nor am I put out by any of the discussion going on. Been busy with life around here and haven't had time to put any coherent thought into posting; watching HB -4271, beginning to look at property available around the state. If, as a caregiver in Michigan, I'm protected in my right to sell overage to a dispensary then I don't really see anything preventing me from making a mild income by providing a service I believe so strongly in. I appreciate that Michigan law has been designed to keep any large scale operation or commercialization out of the picture. I want to be involved with a caring, providing community, not a competitive commercial environment like Colorado or Washington. I hope I'm right in assuming that there's more cooperation, sharing of knowledge, and assistance within a CG community focused on providing care in Michigan. As far as location goes are there strong reasons to choose one region over another? What municipalities or counties either oppose or embrace this medical solution? I'm looking for agricultural property in the 40~100+ acre range. I want the property to be within in maybe 30-45 min of a reasonable size town able to provide basic services - hospital, commerce, maybe a good college. I want as much forest and water on the land as possible, not so much a tilled 80 acre field; privacy, peace and quiet. I have family in the Grand Rapids and Grand Haven areas so maybe closer to that part of the state. I really like the area around Luddington.

I shouldn't be terse in my replies. I want holes poked in my ideas so that I can be certain I understand everything going on there. I appreciate everyone's participation in the discussion.

"Dropping money on the floor" is a poor way to frame how I'm thinking about this. A better way to state my intention would be to say that my family would leverage the marginal "income" presented by being a CG to relieve their own personal finances allowing them to more generously provide for everyone in their lives. Each relative / caregiver puts the medical income in their pocket. It buys them skittles, tickets to Captain America, and a shovel from Meijer's; cash incidentals which is exactly how this supplemental income is used and expected to be used. How they use it, report it, invest it, ect is completely irrelevant to me. Now, completely separate from the previous money pool relative 1 buys me groceries when she goes to the store. Relative 2 pays our cell phone bills because we're on his family plan. Relative 3 allows me regular usage of her 3rd vehicle. Relative 4 pays for one of my medical bills. Relative 5 makes a contribution to my children's 501c3. These expenditures come from their regular legal income. The expenditures are normal, justifiable, and perfectly reasonable. In point of fact I believe that any nominally compassionate and human individual with a seriously disabled relative / veteran that lived close by would offer support of the kind I suggest without ever involving caregiving / mmj into the equation. Is this a "wink-wink" scenario? Kind of...Is it crossing a line? I'm not sure; what line are we talking about? How would it play in court if, in some scenario (that I can't immediately imagine), a court decided to round up my entire family and prosecute them for collectively laundering $40,000 in order to help a permanently 100% disabled veteran feed his children and buy his wife chemotherapy. A) I believe it would be very difficult to build the case in a way that would satisfy the requirements of the law B) Who can select a jury that would condemn them? Should trying to understand the application of law in order to find a way to legally support myself and my family be derided as "cute" and "super clever"? Now...I don't know you and I'm not criticizing you Highlander but it seems like a jerk way of addressing the question by calling me a hypocrite and not recognizing the difference between a convicted felon in possession of loaded firearms allowing others to farm hundreds of thousands of dollars of non medical marijuana on his property (which it's worth noting was designed, fitted, and functioning for illicit non-medical mass production) and a permanently disabled veteran wishing to tend small medical gardens belonging to his family in order to pay for a mobile home and cancer treatments. Am I really clearly in pursuit of the same goals as Jerry Duval? I've made it clear in which one of my posts that this is my intention? I don't imagine that I would, as a single individual caregiver receiving no taxable outside income beyond my 5 patients be subject to enough taxes to be worried about what I can or can't write off... If I had a little less self respect and self worth I would just ask people for money instead of finding a way to enrich a community of individuals. So screw the MMJ idea...I want welfare. I want people to pay for my entire existence without any personal responsibility or vested interest in making it so. Why should I contribute to others in order to receive right? You've got some good points...maybe I'm shady and of low character for trying to game the system here. Good thing you held that mirror up so that I could see what a criminal I was considering becoming...you've saved my very soul

Correct. I would not allow any material into unregistered hands ever. Where I'm working from in my consideration of this endeavor is this: I intend to live a quiet private life on ~80 acres of land regardless of where I move or what I ultimately do with my time and property. Somehow from that base I need to make probably $40-60k / year (above the marginal "income" provided by my VA disability) to support us - food, medical care, utilities, etc. Since exiting military service (honorably) I've had enough difficulty in the workplace and society in general to understand that I am not particularly suited to it. I really can't work traditional jobs and the environmental stressors surrounding me in the world I live in now is too much for me to be myself. I'm not the best husband, father, or individual that I can and should be now. So - how do I escape that trap and have 100% of myself to devote to my wife (who has cancer) and children aged 5-11. I don't know how I might proceed once I have the children to raise by myself. I have the technical knowledge and ability to build and maintain all associated equipment myself. I have (nominally) the resources to acquire property and build facilities. I have horticulturally knowledgeable and accomplished friends willing to set up and advise, on-site for an extended period, while getting everything everything tuned up. I have access to strong, diverse genetics. Growing as a caregiver where legal / profitable seems like an ideal solution for our entire family; in so many ways. In the "go to MI and get 6 people" idea I would deed property to 5 of my relatives who would become licensed CGs with their own patient lists. On each property would reside an identical, secure, smallish, steel building with a garden designed to serve 5 patients. Being a good relative I would be happy to feed and water their plants and fix any problems with plumbing, electrical, etc. Being good relatives (that don't need any additional income) they may well drop money on my floor when we eat lunch at my house after attending church together on Sunday. (I do not remember reading in MI law that the CG and only the CG was allowed access to garden.) In the "go to CO" idea I would (after obtaining all legal authorizations to operate) build a 5,000 sq/ft facility on my property and establish a perpetual harvest of some select strains. I would drive to a city (or cities) once a month and trade medicine for cash, drive to home depot and trade cash for supplies, then drive home to heave a sigh of relief before going outside to play with my dogs. The Colorado angle is much cleaner and easier in many respects. But I do like Michigan and have family there. I love that Michigan MM law is designed to connect CGs and Patients without allowing big commercial operations an opportunity for profiteering. I want to serve people, relieve suffering, and enrich their lives as directly as possible. Some of the state medical laws are ridiculously supportive (and immediately protective) of incredibly restricted major commercialization on few awarded contracts. I believe it's Illinois that will limit all production to 2 government contracts - who the hell let lobbyists do that? I think Minnesota only allows 5 growers for all state supplies? And I want to try smoked sucker fish now - I never attempted to prepare or eat one before.

Thanks for the continuing input all To clarify a couple points: I have no interest in circumnavigating the legal boundaries of an operation. I wish to operate in full compliance with the law. That's why I'm here asking questions. I want to understand how lawmakers are interpreting the law. As I read the laws I don't see anything prosecutable about 6 licensed CGs / 6 addresses / 6 gardens / 30 patients, with one individual providing maintenance in each garden. I used the term "greenhouse" casually. I would be growing in a sealed, insulated, temp/humi controlled indoor garden. I thought I mentioned growing up in Michigan - I am well aware of the weather and its relationship to plants in the open. I'm not stupid and I'm not trying to establish some shady criminal enterprise here. The fact is, Colorado law is perfectly compatible with what I want to do and offers much greater income opportunity. I'm interested in Michigan because I like it, but if the state can't offer me the opportunity to support my family as a farmer / caregiver there's no reason to pursue it. I don't want to get rich or grow 1000 lbs, but I should be entitled to gather a reasonable income for providing a necessary, and now legal, service. RE: Jerry Duval - as far as I can tell from the court filings and information I can find on the internet he absolutely should have been arrested. I'm obviously a major supporter of medical marijuana and compassionate access but if I were an officer of the law I would arrest him without the barest moral twinge. Maybe I'm missing some facts here but what I see is that a convicted felon was reporting income of $275,000 to government accountable financial institutions without filing tax returns or having any actual income attached to his SSN. He made huge cash expenditures (which are required by law to be reported to the IRS) in order to expand production capacity and delivery capability. There were hundreds of plants in multiple facilities on one addressed property. Marijuana could be seen, unobscured to the naked eye, growing on his property. He had guns - lots of guns, LOADED guns - with the marijuana. Commercial processing equipment was present. Product was prepackaged for distribution. No records or registration documentation showing Jerry as a CG or his clients as Patients. On arrest he admitted that he was allowing other individuals to produce marijuana for profit on his property. Given these facts it is apparent to me that Mr. Duval was a criminal engaged in criminal enterprise who gave testimony to those facts to the arresting officers. Despite his lawyers claims, he was not attempting to follow Michigan's medical marijuana laws and knew that he was not. I see no way that his actions can or should be defended and feel no sympathy for him. I understand that it's the job of Jerry's lawyers to try to spin the facts and paint a picture of a poor sick man just trying to live without pain...but he was a felon making hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, spending it carelessly, and casually breaking well known, clearly understood laws and propriety. What kind of idiot felon (granted most felons can probably be scientifically proven idiots) lets people see him growing marijuana, carrying guns, spending tens of thousands of dollars in cash then expects anyone anywhere to believe he wasn't committing any crime. Fool. I hope he is made a clear example of so that people will actually endeavor (as I am) to follow the laws for medical marijuana production / care giving.

Great information all, thank you very much for getting back with me so quickly. It sounds like the margins would be pretty thin. I'm comfortable with the setup / ongoing cost of running the operation. I have all the resources necessary to establish the greenhouses. Does this sound right - If we carried two CG license and legally divided our property into 2 separate addresses, and maintained a full roster of 10 patients, and each patient required 2 oz / mo, then "income" might be reasonably assumed @ $3000 / mo If I add 4 more CGs (have 4 resident relatives that could qualify as CG) and split 60 acres of land into 6 tracts, established 6 gardens, was able to maintain 30 patients at 2 oz / mo, etc then "income" may reach the ~$75,000/yr range The most important goal that we are aiming at is to establish a quiet secluded lifestyle that we can support ourselves on. I receive some assistance from the VA but need to supplement my income in order to provide for us. I need it to be in some way that allows me to be at home with my family away from things that trigger stress and conflict. We have some special medical needs in the family meaning that I really need access to good medical care/insurance - medicade is not adequate.

Thank you, but I've seen those basic facts. I apologize if I wasn't clear in my original post about the type of information I am seeking. Here are some more specific questions: Can my wife and I each be registered caregivers or is it 1 / household. If divorced /separated are the cultivation facilities required to be physically separate? Is the 2.5 oz / patient a per month authorization? If not, what amount over what term is a patient authorized to consume? How much does a patient typically pay for 2.5 oz of medicine? How do I find patients? How often will I have to find more patients? Is it difficult? What if my 5 patients only want 1/4 oz each per month? Do I count as one of my patients or does the law afford me a 6th slot for my own needs? A 7th for my wife? Is there a waiting period for licensing based on state residency? What type of law enforcement / government inspection process is in place? Is it intrusive? Warrantless? Is it possible to make a middle-class income solely as a caregiver?

Good Afternoon! I'm a disabled veteran that needs a career change for many reasons. My wife and I are considering where it would be best to move our family to begin a small farm to serve medical needs. We live in Texas now, but there is no legal cultivation avenue here. I grew in W. Michigan and would enjoy an opportunity to return with my family. The peace and serenity of living in the woods and watching seasons pass would be good for us all. What are the conditions like on the ground? In simple terms, would my wife and I be able to support ourselves while providing this important service to others? Assuming we were able to consistently deliver a highly effective quality organic product, are there enough patients that a caregiver would always have a market for fresh produce? Are market prices supportive of this being a true income crop? I have no desire to make $1,000,000 however I don't believe I would be able to serve my family's interests and medical needs without bringing in $50-80,000. Would it be possible for someone to break down a very basic economic profile? Typical yield in a cycle, average price of top tier medication, taxes / regulatory fees associated with cultivation, production limitations, etc. Please be conservative to pessimistic in estimations. Thank you in advance for your advice and support.