Usps Certified Failure (And A Check Cashed In Indiana)

[treeetopflyer]

The people that are deciding that you need the check are just mis informed. If they would ask an attorney they would find that out. I'm asking you, and everyone else reading this, to help nudge them in the right direction. Both is better but you should start counting, like the law says, from the date of receipt.

 

This is exactly like Schuette crossing out the part of the law that says, Approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of RECEIVING it. and inserting "When the state gets paid, and your check clears the bank, then start counting 15 days"

 

The law says; Approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of RECEIVING it. Keep pushing and one day it will be as the law says.

 

My God man, do you really not get the point people are trying to tell you? Its not always about what the letter of the law requires that LEO accept. Sorry but I'll waste no more time explaining to someone obviously doesnt want to hear anyone but themselves.

[OverUnderThrough]

There definitely should be the white sticker with the tracking number on the return receipt. What is the tracking number? It doesn't show any personal information or anything. It just shows where you dropped it off and what happened. I would like to track it and see what happened.

 

PM sent

[peanutbutter]

It doesn't matter if they processed it. The law doesn't say that at all. We need to stick with what the law says, not make things up at a whim like Schuette does, to make things harder for patients.

 

What is even more incredibly ignorant is that cashing the check doesn't mean they processed the forms because we all know they didn't yet at that point. So why even say that? They grab the check and send it to Indiana before they ever even look at the forms. That is what they tell you themselves.

 

Yes they do process it. The day they deposit the check.

 

As for what the law says, it's 20 days from submission. Not from when they receive it.

 

The check cashed is the last date that it could be possible to count from. The first possible date to count from is the day you submit the app, which would be at the post office when you drop it off.

[peanutbutter]

Section 9 (b) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

[peanutbutter]

Section 9 (b) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

 

And please note.

 

It doesn't say a copy of the cashed check. It doesn't say with a copy of the doctors letter.

 

It only says a copy of the application shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

 

All that other stuff isn't in the law.

[peanutbutter]

So if they toss it into a corner, it doesn't matter.

 

Once you have entrusted it to the USPS it has been submitted.

 

If the countdown depends on the good graces of office workers to even open the mail, then they can close the program by doing just that.

 

Just don't open the mail .. done ..

 

But that's NOT the case. It doesn't depend on when they receive it.

[peanutbutter]

Submitted to the department, not the post office. Of course, I asked an attorney. He's the one that says, "Approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of RECEIVING it." It's on his web site, go look. I don't make this stuff up. Pass it on....

 

Please stop putting words into the law that don't exist there.

 

The department has fifteen days to reject from receipt.

 

Paper work is good twenty days after submission. AND IT DOESN'T SAY TWENTY DAYS AFTER RECEIPT.

[peanutbutter]

I'm glad we finally agree on something. Submission is receipt. They have 5 days to issue the card after they had 15 days to approve or deny it. Go on over to Greg Schmid's web site and you will see where I get all my info. I don't make this up. It's too important to do that.

 

Bull. Pure BS propaganda.

 

check out the MO .. change words in the law by pretending they are already changed.

 

Like "the" and "a" are the same things? Same methodology.

[peanutbutter]

Did you check his web site? Like I said, this is above my pay grade. I ask Greg.

 

He says that the post office is your agent for delivery. You are paying them to be your agent. They submit it to the state for you. Then it is in the 'received mode'. Now this isn't my point of view because I'm just a good listener. It's an attorneys point of view, which trumps the heck out of my POV. I would put a link here right to it but I didn't ask this web site if that was ok. Trying to be as politically correct.

 

I don't need to ask an attorney. I just need to read the law, in this case.

 

If they "receive" it at the same time as you "submit" it, then it was "received" at the post office. Not when it arrives at LARA or when they get around to opening the letter or when they get around to cashing the check.

 

Their cashing of the check is not the action of "receive." They receive it first. Then they do whatever they are going to do with the application. Including cashing the check. Cashing the check could take months after they receive it.

 

In the case of the OP on this thread, this becomes a very important issue. With his part of the "green card" he can show proof of submission. He submitted it to the government. He did his part.

[peanutbutter]

Like I said countless times already, like we agree on here, it doesn't matter if they open it, it's when they receive it. The post office works for you to get the state to receive it. They are your agent to do this. That's all they are, they are not the state when they are your agent.

 

I have been helping the OP through pm's. In their case, if something were to happen while their agent is doing a terrible job delivering their application, they could prove to a prosecutor or judge that they did all they could to have the state receive their application. In that case a prosecutor should see that and start the count a day after their agent took control of it. But that all goes out the window if there was a mistake on the forms. In the normal situation, the state only has the 15 days to find mistakes. This is one of those situations where the OP has to be extra careful at the beginning because of the error by their agent, the post office. I have been helping patients with their forms since they came out in '09 and this is the first time I've seen such a mistake.

 

This "agent" is the government.

 

The clock counts when it's tax time. Your 1040 is submitted AND RECEIVED when you hand it to the post office.

 

in the account of taxes, the post office is a delivery agent of both fed and state. but where taxes are concerned (unconstitutional as they are) the post office is acting as the accepting department for the IRS of both State and Federal offices.

 

with the MMMP being a State controled entity, the Post office is only serving as a delivery agent in a 3rd party manor, where in taxes they are a direct reception facility.

 

This changes the aspect of the acceptance of the program, which is when the MMMP department recieves said postage, and is accepted by the department... that unfortunately does not cover the post office as being the reception department of the documents, only the facilitator of transfer.

 

Now, the real ?, if this Pts stuff was sent on a WGC (wild goose chase) is this an isolated incident? or is this happing alot? if it is, it could show willful mail tampering on a department with in the government, either state or federal, or local perhaps.

 

if many of these "Apps" are miss mailed, i would say its just another willfull atempt to subvert the vote of the people of this fine state, by either illegal federal, state and or local agencies, or sub groups with in them.

[peanutbutter]

How in the world can a citizen be held criminally responsible for a government error?

[peanutbutter]

That is your point of view and you are entitled to it. My attorney doesn't agree. I'm willing to leave it there.

 

done.

[Ionic7]

everyone is always arguing on here

[peanutbutter]

everyone is always arguing on here

 

I DO NOT!!

[Ionic7]

I DO NOT!!

 

Do to

[+Green Cross]

Whew, then suddenly Harmony broke out. May be Therapeutic Herbal Compounds are soothing the citizenry. OK, here's the real dealio folks.

 

This is not the IRS accepting USPS date stamps, both being fed houses. LARA processing is a closed system. It is true LARA by law must Approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of RECEIVING it. Thus it's critical to understand what RECEIVED means under LARA's jurisdiction that THEY consider it RECEIVED. Such as what creates irrefutable proof that would be scrutinized in Court and would swing the outcome of your trial.

 

Two conditions lead to LARA having RECEIVED your app/renewal and thus - starting your 15 day count - :

1) when a LARA agent signs-for-and-dates an arriving USPS Signature Return Receipt green postcard; they use a signature stamp; or

2) when LARA office personnel places a large RECEIVED stamp with that date on the top right corner of incoming apps/renewals.

 

Correct, nowadays you don't see the RECEIVED stamp so often on folks' paperwork. Used to be a 3rd option of hand-delivering apps/renewals to the MDCH Lansing office and get the RECEIVED stamp in-person but that got halted last Spring, leaving only postal mail as the submission option. When they cash your check/money order shows -one- date of several in the application process that your file is moving along, but the law speaks to when the app/renewal was RECEIVED as defined above.

[peanutbutter]

Whew, then suddenly Harmony broke out. May be Therapeutic Herbal Compounds are soothing the citizenry. OK, here's the real dealio folks.

 

This is not the IRS accepting USPS date stamps, both being fed houses. LARA processing is a closed system. It is true LARA by law must Approve or deny an application or renewal within 15 days of RECEIVING it. Thus it's critical to understand what RECEIVED means under LARA's jurisdiction that THEY consider it RECEIVED. Such as what creates irrefutable proof that would be scrutinized in Court and would swing the outcome of your trial.

 

Two conditions lead to LARA having RECEIVED your app/renewal and thus - starting your 15 day count - :

1) when a LARA agent signs-for-and-dates an arriving USPS Signature Return Receipt green postcard; they use a signature stamp; or

2) when LARA office personnel places a large RECEIVED stamp with that date on the top right corner of incoming apps/renewals.

 

Correct, nowadays you don't see the RECEIVED stamp so often on folks' paperwork. Used to be a 3rd option of hand-delivering apps/renewals to the MDCH Lansing office and get the RECEIVED stamp in-person but that got halted last Spring, leaving only postal mail as the submission option. When they cash your check/money order shows -one- date of several in the application process that your file is moving along, but the law speaks to when the app/renewal was RECEIVED as defined above.

 

Hard to hold a grudge, when you can't remember who you're ticked at ..

[AMS]

Hey guys..so i have some questions...i just moved to michigan and am in the application process and have a few questions... I just saw that the check cleared my account yesterday and the indianapolis bit along the wierd payee listed on the back raised some questions which led me to the LARA website FAQ section. There were two questions in particular i wanted to get clarification on because you all seem to know what you're talking about:

 

"Question: Do I need to keep a copy of my application and any other information I send to the MMMP?

Answer: Yes. If your application has not yet been approved, denied or terminated you may provide law enforcement with a copy of your written documentation submitted to the department; you must also submit proof of the date of mailing or other transmission of the documentation. This documentation shall have the same legal effect as a registry identification card, until such time as you receive your card or you have received notification that your application has been approved, denied or terminated."

 

AND

 

"Question: I am a valid medical marihuana patient under another state's law. Am I protected?

Answer: Yes, under Section 4(j) of the MMMA, a registry identification card or its equivalent issued by another state government to permit the medical use of marihuana by a qualifying patient or to permit a person to assist with a qualify patient's medical use of marihuana has the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the Department."

 

I also came across this forum and read all the previous entries in this thread. I'm wondering if you have to wait the 15 or 21 days or whatever it is, why would they answer the first question above in that manner? They make it sound like you're good to with your submission paperwork immediately, as if it were as powerful as holding a card, by the way they worded it it even sounds like you're good to go for a couple weeks at least even if you were to eventually be denied... Then I read your posts and it definitely sounds like that's not the case. I'm just uncertain what the answer is and why they would put that on their website.

 

Also, whats the deal with people coming in from out of state. Generally speaking, would an out of state card holder be allowed access into a dispensary or does it just imply that they could partake in marijuana during their stay in michigan?

 

Lastly, Do dispensaries typically count the days and not let you in before the 21 days is up or do they generally just look to make sure you have the check and thats it...oh, and one more thing is it common knowledge by dispensaries that the back of the check now says indianapolis and are okay with that?

 

Thanks so much for the help..

 

AMS

[ozzrokk]

Hey guys..so i have some questions...i just moved to michigan and am in the application process and have a few questions... I just saw that the check cleared my account yesterday and the indianapolis bit along the wierd payee listed on the back raised some questions which led me to the LARA website FAQ section. There were two questions in particular i wanted to get clarification on because you all seem to know what you're talking about:

 

"Question: Do I need to keep a copy of my application and any other information I send to the MMMP?

Answer: Yes. If your application has not yet been approved, denied or terminated you may provide law enforcement with a copy of your written documentation submitted to the department; you must also submit proof of the date of mailing or other transmission of the documentation. This documentation shall have the same legal effect as a registry identification card, until such time as you receive your card or you have received notification that your application has been approved, denied or terminated."

 

AND

 

"Question: I am a valid medical marihuana patient under another state's law. Am I protected?

Answer: Yes, under Section 4(j) of the MMMA, a registry identification card or its equivalent issued by another state government to permit the medical use of marihuana by a qualifying patient or to permit a person to assist with a qualify patient's medical use of marihuana has the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the Department."

 

I also came across this forum and read all the previous entries in this thread. I'm wondering if you have to wait the 15 or 21 days or whatever it is, why would they answer the first question above in that manner? They make it sound like you're good to with your submission paperwork immediately, as if it were as powerful as holding a card, by the way they worded it it even sounds like you're good to go for a couple weeks at least even if you were to eventually be denied... Then I read your posts and it definitely sounds like that's not the case. I'm just uncertain what the answer is and why they would put that on their website.

 

Also, whats the deal with people coming in from out of state. Generally speaking, would an out of state card holder be allowed access into a dispensary or does it just imply that they could partake in marijuana during their stay in michigan?

 

Lastly, Do dispensaries typically count the days and not let you in before the 21 days is up or do they generally just look to make sure you have the check and thats it...oh, and one more thing is it common knowledge by dispensaries that the back of the check now says indianapolis and are okay with that?

 

Thanks so much for the help..

 

AMS

 

 

21 days from the date they receive your paperwork and you are legal. If you really want to be on the safe side and I suggest you do then 21 days from the date they cash your check and you are legal. Yes the disp. will count the dates and no worries on the check being cashed in Indiana they all get cashed there. If you hold an out of state card you are good to go as far as partaking. I do not know if disp. will accept that card from out of state and not sure about growing on that out of state card, I would not push that.

Welcome to Michigan and welcome to the MMMA.

[AMS]

21 days from the date they receive your paperwork and you are legal. If you really want to be on the safe side and I suggest you do then 21 days from the date they cash your check and you are legal. Yes the disp. will count the dates and no worries on the check being cashed in Indiana they all get cashed there. If you hold an out of state card you are good to go as far as partaking. I do not know if disp. will accept that card from out of state and not sure about growing on that out of state card, I would not push that.

Welcome to Michigan and welcome to the MMMA.

 

Thanks for the clarification ozzrokk, good info to know and thanks for the welcoming! AMS

[ozzrokk]

Thanks for the clarification ozzrokk, good info to know and thanks for the welcoming! AMS

 

 

Anytime my friend. I also urge you not to take just my or anyone elses opinion on anything to do with this law but please read read read and read the law. The more you know about it the safer and better off you will be.